One thing I’ve talked about before, but haven’t mentioned much of late is the online DreadBall results tracker.
It’s still there, quietly vacuuming up all the results it can find, and you’re more than welcome to add to the data. The more the merrier, and the more useful it becomes too.
It’s worth having a play about with the tabs at the top too. Changing from the last 100 games to the whole data set and back again allows you to see how things have evolved over time (and continue to). I’m happy to say that my predictions over the dominance of the human team has proven to be broadly correct so far, though we’re not done yet and I’m sure there’s plenty more settling to be had. The bad boys at present are the Judwan, though even they are far from unbeatable.
Also of note is the Forge Fathers who seem to be coping fine now. A last 100 games filter shows them at exactly 50/50 wins and losses. Can’t say fairer than that.
Personally I’m most surprised by the female humans and the Orcs doing so poorly, though my previous analysis of the Orcs still holds true (at least in my head). It’s hard to be certain though, which is why I’d like you all to add your results to the mix if you would. Don’t worry about recalling games you’ve already played, just try to add new ones as you play them. Let’s just keep moving forward.
Currently the data set is still small enough to be skewed by a group of players having trouble or otherwise with an individual team. The more games we can include the more the set becomes useful as an analytical tool and the better this helps us to balance the teams overall.
Also, if you know other people who play DB but don’t post results here, please let them know.
Every little helps 🙂
Hi! Glad to see my little side-project is being useful! Also, so you know, there are a few “undocumented” views on the data for your leisurly viewing, such as:
Last 200 games w/out same-team matches: http://db.chezalex.net/last200-nosame.html (One of my favourites)
Last 100 games w/out same-team matches: http://db.chezalex.net/last100-nosame.html
New to DB and been playing Orcs. Sadly the are have only one win out of three plays.
Stick with them mate, it’s all about killing the other guys strikers… 🙂
Or just killing them all…
I suspect Orks lose more because fresh out of the box they’re up against humans.
Humans who are easier to be good with than Orks which require more finesse, hense the orks lose.
At least that’s my attempt at an explanation.
I’ve played about 50 or so games with my Orks (the Mighty Dorks) in our last league, friendlies, and tournaments, and I’m happy to say that though I started off poorly, I consider myself to be a pretty tough cookie with them now, and my win ratio reflects this 🙂
Dorks for the win!
That was basically my analysis of why the humans appeared to be so good.
That being said, when you scroll down to the “Orx and Goblins” section, they don’t do immensely better against other teams (.340 against Veer-Myn, for instance).
Love the Orx.
That could also be a result of which players are drawn to Marauders in the first place… I have an atrocious win rate with my Orx but I put this down to the fact that as soon as they are on the pitch I have a habit of forgetting about the ball. I can’t explain it… it is just an automatic thing.
Our group has found Orx to be much more competetive with a Offensive Coach to allow the gobbos the extra move needed to score. looking at the data… the Orx are actually doing well against most teams after season 2…. The bots and judwan being the exceptions which are throwing off a very limited data set.
Looks great, but could it also have the Kick-Off rules as a subset ,as that is what we play with!
Hi! Aren’t Kick Off rules the same as “Original Release”?
Its like a stripped back version with no cards or Ref.
To be honest, the method of data collection is something that really discourages me from entering results. I think it is fantastic to have some numbers to look at, but I can’t help but question the reliability of the data when there are so many variables which are not captured.
The immediate issue is that the data completely ignores the format that games are played in. Were teams starting teams? Developed teams? The Kickoff Rules? Were the teams balanced? Did either team have free Agents? MVPs? Were botb coaches equally experienced? Was it a competetive environment like a tournament?
The data makes no differentiation between a S1 Orx team and a S2 Orx team with an Offensive Coach… Two teams that should in theory play very differently.
I certainly appreciate the effort required to compile the data but the maxim that quantity has a quality of its own can only go so far. At the moment, the search for maximum number of results does appear to completely disregard the value of any quality control.
Not wanting to sound negative, and as you’ve said Jake, you find the data helpful… I just think that the scattergun approach to data collection to be somewhat unreliable. Which is a shame because our playing group has a very talented FF coach who could probably bring the FF numbers back to a reasonable level if we placed any confidence in the figures as is.
Well, you can just take them for what they are can’t you? Its not like anyone is holding these figures up as the be all and end all… They can only go so far, but they’re still interesting statistics in their own right.
Certainly… but what they are is incomplete.
I’m just saying that we don’t put our games into the system. It really is too much effort for an outcome which is unreliable at best.
Sure, but its a sliding scale not a case of “because they aren’t perfect, they are worthless”. I’ve just had a go at inputting a few and it wasn’t too bad… The more people that do it, the better it will be and the more interesting the results.
Certainly not saying it is useless, Jake clearly finds it useful. But for me the data isn’t definitive enough to justify taking the time to enter it.
It is a great concept and I love that the guy has taken to time to set it up, but everyone is going to have a different threshold at which they classify information as being valid.
For me, casting a broad net is just an approach that I see limited utility with.
I’m not against collecting data, I’d love to see an international register of coaches, teams and events which track a multitude of game formats. Showing best placed coaches for each race and game history between top ranked coaches.
I’ve played seven Dreadball games so far with five opposing my Maraudeur opponent to my Veer-myn. Despite the fact that my opponent’s a mathematical genius (he’s got a Master’s in statistics and calculates odds mentally like a Mentat), he’s beaten me so far only once, and only because he managed to get the Mustache-Twisting MVP as a striker because I had 15mc points over him. He did manage to take down most of my Veer-myn most of the time and he’s using his Jacks’ positioning to the fullest, but I have to admit I only win because of my team’s greater mobility. Were he to play any other team than the Marauders, I think I’d be mopped to death. However, my 3 guards only managed once to take down one of his players because of those goblin’s high speed and the orks’ guard armour (and only because I had three holding him during a Stomp and using coaching dice). On the last game he made me lose because after scoring a 2 point Strike with that MVP, he turtled on the ball by surrounding it in a corner with all his players for the rest of the game until turn 14.
So I do think the Marauder team’s lack of Strikers is a major disadvantage for that team, making it nearly impossible for them to strike any points, even with great tactical acumen…
Has your friend tried investing in an offensive coach? A jack with 3 actions is much more likely to score.
I play Orx too. Trust me when I say that their strength comes with practice, I started off losing all my games with them, complaining about the lack of strikers – but now (with many many games under my belt) I’m a force to be reckoned with.
It’s all about playing to your innate strengths and limiting the strengths of your opponent.
I have to agree with Jimmi here. The good marauder coaches I’ve seen are devastating, but they aren’t an easy team to learn. I think the issue is partly that they play their first games against the humans who are easy, and also that the Marauders look like they’d be simpler than they really are.
I think the Orx results are still a little skewed because most new players have the basic game (or now DB Kickoff), and while they learn the game, the Corporation usually fare a little better.
Orx can certainly be really destructive. I recently introduced the game to two brothers, and the one playing Orx had some amazing luck with dice rolls, rolling an insane amount of 6s during the game and scoring at least three 8 to 0 slam results.
The poor corporation coach didn’t know what hit him, and ended up with five dead players by the end of the game. Even though the goblins kept fumbling the ball, the corporation coach just couldn’t keep enough players on the field to stop them scoring.
Hope the marauders coach will keep it up, as he’s clearly a natural.
Multiple 8-0 slams? Be afraid…
My experience with all the teams has pretty much been along the following lines (and I hit on these points in the 2 video reviews I did).
Orx play best to a certain play style and can be pretty darn brutal especially with a certain MVP (Buzzcut going out for blood while the Goblin jacks run all over trying to score seems pretty darn effective).
Void Siren human team comes out of the gate really strong but lack of Cards kills them in the latter half of the game. In one off games that seems to be how it keeps falling out but in league play. With some cash upgrades the pendulum starts swinging back in their favor again.
Judwan are extremely iffy and either win by a complete blowout or basically get stomped into the astro-turf. It really comes down to who they play against, some teams they dominate, while others turn them into stains. Dwarves of all teams have yet to lose to them for us… I know that’s just bizarre I have nothing here.
The bugs seem to be very solid all around nothing glaringly makes me think they are out of line.
Robots seem to depend on who they are playing against. Versus one trick pony teams they do well but other teams seem to have a leg up on them.
I think there’s a lot of learning left for people to do yet. The game is still very young and we’re still putting new teams and rules out into the mix. The way they all interact and the balance between them hasn’t entirely settled yet, in my view. Nor would I expect it to for months yet. It’s an exciting time where we haven’t got nailed down “recommended” tactics for all and people still have to think for themselves rather than just looking up the internet wisdom.
As with all sets of characterful armies/teams/etc there are some that are more even and others that are more erratic. Some win or lose big while others are more consistent. And there will inevitably also be some match ups which are harder for one side or the other to win, just because of the way those particular two sides match up. I think that’s all fine.
What isn’t fine is a team that cannot win or cannot be beaten, though I don’t think we have any of those. Individual gaming groups may have issues beating Judwan, for example, but 3 months ago the internet told me that nobody could win with Forge Fathers. I know that was wrong and I suspect we’re still looking at a settling period for the Judwan. What is endlessly intriguing is the difference in bogey-man teams between different gaming groups.
A thought. I like the idea of a defensive slam play. Only just got the game so yet to practice. My idea… Which i shall try out….. It is to allow guards a two hex move to slam an opposing player who has moved. Its like the run interference play but is allowed every turn (in the opponents turn) but only for guards. The normal rules for slamming/slam back/dodging would be followed, expect the slamming defensive guard evade and move to slam and can only do it once per turn. I think this may allow a pro active approach to defence but will not be unwieldy.