DICE TESTS – The full story. The probability of each possible number of successes for 5 die, 4die, 3die and 2 die tests. And in each case for each possible 2+, 3+ etc.
Hi Jake
A wild shot in the dark here. I recently saw an XBOX 360 game of Australian Rules Football which made me think there must be a market. I have spent decades playing Grid Iron based games, and now years with DreadBall (Ice Hockey?) and I decided to make a game that feels like “Australian Rules Football”.
Firstly, I tip my hat to you, game design is not easy! I have however developed a competitive (with personalised teams) game which while 6 versus 6 (I left 18 v 18 very early!) contains the core spirit of AFL. The game is played roughly 50 minutes, contains ruck work, hard ball gets, hand passing, kicking, marking and more.
I am lucky as a Teacher Librarian to have a instant play testing cohort of 12-15year olds at school and the game evolved a lot over the last few weeks (at one point it “worked” but there was to much running and not enough kicking/marking).
Anyway, I was wondering if you might run your eyes over my game “At the contest” and I would also appreciate any advice on how I might go about getting it published.
If you are happy to do so then please email me at kmullumby@bigpond.com and I will then email you the dropbox URL’s (rules, team sheets, tables).
Howdy all, does anyone know of a good online resource that teaches Dreadball tactics? Other than pretty rubbish threads on the Mantic forums and elsewhere that just descend into random drivel, I can’t seem to find any.
Why thank you very much Jake. I’m hoping that people will post on it, as I think it would be a very useful resource. Why not drop one on there for yourself? I’m sure it would add validity to the thread and help get the ball rolling 😀
why is the judwan and robot team member 1 and 2 blank?
jut a thought can be adjusted.
looking forward to the rule book release btw, my daughter wants void sirens, pink and black after the ny ladys football team on a film on tv last week.
The short answer is “because I took the Veer Myn procedure and removed th e guards to do the Judwan (less work)”.
I can shift them up though, stay tuned.
Is there any posibility of choosing your initial roster configuration? ie: create an initial Human team with 3-4 guards and less strikers for playing a very strong teams league or begin with more or less coach dices
I think this will increase a lot the playability of the teams
While watching an AFL game today the commentators basically chastised a player for going for a mark(catch) that he had no realistic chance and yes for DB fans a turnover occurred.
It did make me think, professional players always know where they are on the field and a team should be able to incorporate a DON’T CATCH IT WHEN YOUR ON A DB HEX play rule. that is the pictures I’ve seen do seem to have the hexes marked so the players would know when they are on them.
It should be possible in my view for players to be bright enough to judge when they have a chance and to bat the ball away when they don’t. But if that is not possible then they should be able to follow the instruction – ONLY ATTEMPT TO CATCH PASSES FROM FRIENDLY PLAYERS, CALLED OVER THE HELMET COMS (see page 31 of the season 2 book, they have helmet COMS).
Sure your team might miss out on some loose balls, but surely that is your franchises choice?
Fair enough, I guess it was not clear that it was an actual rule of the game in the DB universe that a coach in the DB universe would read and be familiar with. It struck me more as an assumed action by payers with gloves in a type of situation, that of unexpected loose ball at 300mph.
I perhaps ask for a lot, but how does the in universe rule read such that it differentiates between a loose ball at 300mph coming at a player and a ball that has been thrown at a player with intent o injure at 300 mph. I assume the rule allows the dodge for the second action as per the DB rules in our universe. But the rules for a coach in the DB universe will not mention turnovers or actions, how do they phrase when a player MUST attempt to catch and when they can DODGE. Depending on this rule will answer my question on training my team to DODGE all loose balls. Also important is how the referee is meant to differentiate between a loose ball and a ball thrown with intent to injure when watching the player who attempts to dodge.
Finally given you can ask players to break every other rule, why not this one? And if a striker did break this rule and fist the ball and it richoted next to a team mate what would be the in universe penalty? It seems that there is no in game penalty but the other team gains the initiative (starts moving players) but how would that be written in the rules my in universe coach would read and coach to?
I can see the scene where the coach explains sucker punch to a player but:
Coach: When a loose ball from a launcher or scatter heads for you jack smith I expect you to try and catch it.
jack: Ok coach.
Coach: When an opponent throws the ball at you, dodge!
Jack: Ok coach.
Jack: Coach, what do I do when I see the ball coming and don’t know where it came from?
Coach: ……………
coach: Well Jack Smith you should evaluate where the ball came from, think about it till you are sure, then either dodge or catch. BUT remember don’t think for too long or the ball will just scatter off of you (and possibly injure you) and the team will penalised for you not catching or dodging by, well the penalty is, that is to say………
And the player is to stop and think about the origin before deciding to catch or dodge? I’m not sure if you have ever seen the break down of car stopping distances but often the biggest bit is the distance the ball travels before the driver puts his foot on the break. To add thinking about “did the ball scatter of that player (=catch) or did he throw it at me (=dodge) would seriously hamper your players ability to do anything.
To put forward a possible solution that makes the movie scene work, we go back to the coaches reply.
coach: Well Jack Smith when the ball has been thrown at you it will be travelling at 500mph, not the usual 200mph and inbuilt sensors in your glove will set off that dodge, dodge, dodge alarm in your helmet. When you hear that, you dodge, otherwise you catch.
Now that would work and solve everything, trouble is I invented it and I have no “ownership” of the story/game/universe.
Thank you.
I have thought of a point 7 overnight.
7) the reduction in dice at 4 and then again at 7 hexes is more about the increased difficulty of passing to where the receivers glove will be rather than where it is now. At close range it will move for 0.101 seconds, ad mid range double and at long triple that.
8) The calculations of where a receivers glove will be in more than 0.3 seconds are too complex (and unreliable) and this is why this distance is out of range.
Curveball, magnetic dipoles or bend it like Beckham
This pass around no less than 4 defenders between the passer and the receiver is legitimate, any Jack or Striker can make it.
This means our 200MPH ball can/does have predicable (at least by the thrower) trajectories ranging from dead straight to close to circular like this pass.
I would suggest the field is in a giant capacitor generating a constant vertical electric field.
The ball has a strong magnetic dipole which will allow the thrower to:
1) line the magnetic and electric fields up – no deviation
2) have the fields perpendicular – circular motion
3) have the fields at an acute angle – parabolic motion
This would go some way further to explaining how the receiver “receiving” the predicted telemetry from the throwers suit beforehand helps so much (when comparing a friend or foe under the bucket for a missed shot).
Cricket like importance to the placement of the seam which makes me smile.
When Rutherford fired a Alpha particle gun at gold atoms he expected a scatter pattern totally behind the target atoms which he believed had their mass uniformly spread out with electron plumbs ina positive pudding.
He was shocked when not all the deflections were accounted for and he moved the detector around and found some neutons had done a complete 180, as if they had hit a brick wall. Others had carried on forwards at various angles.
The only explanation possible was that the mass of the atom was concentrated in a small brick wall, sorry nucleus.
So to account for the scatter pattern of the strikes I would say that there must be some physical massive (or at least immovable) but small bit of holographic teleporter projector kit floating in the strike hex. For Red Dwarf fans a “Light bee” if you will but an immovable one.
Missed strikes that strike the Bee will generate a scatter pattern not inconsistent with the random role we use to model it in the game.
So again, taking some artistic licence for a universe which is not mine, yes I can explain the scattering.
Some discussion of a -1 penalty to throws passing through threat hexes is current on the mantic forums, IF this came to pass then:
Well, if the fluff provided on throwing and catching, “catches on” (it does have a ‘nicely done’ from Jake and 94 views with only 4 comments) then can I put forward how the -1 to throws through threat hexes would work?
How could a player move their arm or glove that far in the 50ms (a criketer gets 350ms against a fast bowler and 50ms is giving our players a reaction time 1/2 of todays olympians), they could not, but….
If a player with a DB glove detects an opposition throw through a threat hex with his FFR, then he can use the EM system in his glove (capable of stopping a 200mph steel ball in 30cm of flight) to attempt to disrupt the fliight of the throw with a highly directional short range EM pulse causing the throw to lose a dice. (Goblin Jacks perhaps have a telescoping of the main blade to cause the same effect). This would mean that only players with DB gloves cause a penalty to shooting/passing through their zones.
Jake, don´t know where to post this…
I´d be very interested about how the player costs are calculated. I had a look at different players of different teams and it´s not obvious on first sight. Some abilities seem to increase the cost by 1mc, others by 0,5.
I guess the easiest way is to take the human team and go from there.
A human Jack is 8mc. Would a stat increase/decrease of 1 Increase/decrease it´s cost by 1?
Anyway, you know what I mean.
Would be cool to see a thread about that.
It doesn’t work like that Lines. The synergies are what’s really important here, and they’re ferociously complex to get right in points terms. So, a point of something is not necessarily the same cost for everyone.
Hi there, as an avid veer-myn player and leading the mighty rat men to a too four finish in the scottish nationals I was wondering with all the knew season 3 teams away to be released will there be any development in season 1 teams. So far I have found the rats to be reasonably competitive against all teams including judwan and void sirens however compared to other season 2 and the season 3 teams and was wondering was there any thoughts towards giving them a team ability to keep them competitive otherwise they may become obsolete post season 3 as judwan,void sirens and astarians are just far better.
thanks
I’m not sure how much difference there will be overall when everyone has had a chance to play the various different teams. At present the S3 teams aren’t even officially out yet, and so their relative potency has to get through the learning curve of both Coaches and opponents before we can properly assess how good they are, relatively. We’ve already seen a number of imagined disasters and calamities and experience has taught me that there is a natural cycle these things go through anyway. The S1 teams may need tweaking because the game itself has changed since they started, quite apart from the new team types. However, it’s too early to tell for sure.
Having said that, I’m not averse to fixing things that need fixing. I just need convincing they’re broken before I do so 😉
Thanks for the reply first of all 🙂
I do agree we will need to wait until s3 is out I just wondered if anyone else has found that other s1 teams are being outmatched by s2 regardless of each players ability. Thanks again for the reply and loving dreadball so long may it continue
As a side note that league I am in is 8 games in and so far my rat team(hakunaratatta) are top on points and team rating although 2nd and 3rd are two judwan teams with the majority of the team with skill3+ and SPOH so everyone who complains standard judwan are scary should play these two teams(one of which I have already landslided) but I have faith my rats can hold out 🙂
Sounds like you’re doing well in your league Marc. I have heard a handful of comments about S1 teams being underpowered, but then I also heard that humans were overpowered. Existing stats show that not to be the case, but as I said I think it’s early days. “Still collating” as Ash might say.
Just wanted to put forward an idea I had the other day. I find using the PDF or rule book for team stat reference a big of a swine sometimes when space is limited, and I was looking across as a Warmachine/Hordes game and though team cards for each great – one per position, and then you can have one for each MVP too. Can have them like a mini deck in front of you for less space and speed of ref.
I don’t know if it is something you would be up for doing officially through Mnatic (could put the relevant cards in the the boxes/blisters ala Privateer Press too), but if we created reference cards ourselves, would that be okay with you?
I am a supporter of Dreadball, I backed literally everything there was.. That being said, I just received my Season 3 shipment.. Imagine my surprise when I learned there where no rules for the backer created MVP’s and many of the late exclusive MVPS.. This has been brought up to mantic on their forum, they don’t seem to give a rat’s ass about answering us. You are the designer, and I suspect would have to be involved in any player creation.. So I ask you here, When can I expect rules for ALL of the dreadball players I paid cash for?
I would hate to start throwing wrenches in the Mars Attack KS, as a 300$ backer there, I think people would be outraged at the idea of being sold a model with no rules.. just as I am about the current dreadball models.
Hi Mike, sorry to hear you’re upset. Good point though. We’re wrapping up the tail ends of the DB KS at the moment. I’ve written my bits for the “making of” book and that’s being laid out now. I also write all of the MVP stats and have just this week got the models of the backer MVPS to reference. It’s always better if you can get the actual models when you’re writing rules as that helps make the model and rules look right together. Things don’t always end up looking as you imagined from the concept. It can be quite strange if the “delicate” player you’ve written turns out rather burly and 8 foot tall. Stranger things have happened.
There’a been a bit of back and forth (in a good way) between Mantic and the backers about what they wanted their characters to do, and I’m working those notes up into a final version now.
I’m not sure which other MVPs are missing. There are so many that I lose track and tend to just work off the list that’s given to me.
Thank you so much for the swift response. I had hoped we would see rules for them; but Mantic isn’t saying anything.. Much like the inserts for the white team boxes.. There were threads in lots of places asking for them.. and no inserts.. Suddenly here are the inserts.. Mantic would do itself a huge favor by just letting the rabid fans know what is in the works.. We can accept we are working on it, and expect something in Q1, even if it is just some raw / rough ideas..
There was all the backer MVPS, 3 or 4 of them, Blaine or whatever that guy was.. seems like a couple more have to check.. I am still trying to sort out my S3 order so much stuff came. I am on the other side of the US from my home for a couple weeks but I will get to the bottom of the mvp list I have when I get home.. I should be able to put every model to a picture. If it is of value, I can post pictures of what I have without rules after I get it sorted out..
Thanks Michael. You shouldn’t need to give me the list, but as it gives you an excuse to rummage through a box of new toys I’ll encourage it 😉
I’ve got some urgent MA and DZ bits to do over the next few days and then I’ll sort out all the outstanding DB MVPs. So far that just looks like Blaine and the 3 Backers (I’m fairly sure there were only 3). I’ll use the time to double-check with Mantic that they don’t have anything else on their DB list. Well, I’ve already started looking at DBX, but that’s another story.
I had a situation that came up in a game last night, where a jack with Running Interference did her thang against a player attemping to pick up the ball 2 hexes away. We were conflicted as to what happens next.
My argument in this situation is that as soon as someone enters the hex with the ball, they must try to pick it up (if they’re not a guard); the ball needs somewhere to be, a “state” if you will. Going for the pickup before the Slam would therefore give it somewhere to be. The Slam would then be resolved.
If this is the case, can the interfering jack apply their threat hex to the ball hex during the pickup?
The counter-argument runs that the Running Interference interrupts everything, including the pickup. The player moves into the ball hex and before they can attempt to pick up the ball, the jack moves a hex and Slams.
Is the ball simply in a limbo state while the Slam is resolved? Does it stay on the ground until whoever is remaining in the hex (if anyone) then attempts to collect the ball? Will it scatter at all?
I love Dreadball and have started playing Deadzone, It is also an awesome game. After playing with deadzone’s D8 dice I can’t help but think how awesome Dreadball would be with a D8 instead of a D6.
The races in deadzone seem like they are more different from each other because of the D8 range of stats. At times in dreadball the difference between races seem smaller and certain positional players from different teams are almost exactly the same. This is the difference between a D6 vs D8.
The D* would allow for more variety of teams, because of the greater range of stats the D8 system would allow. I think as you add more teams the difference between them will be harder and hard to maintain. It will require more special rules and in the long run it will make the game more complicated that just changing the stat lines.
It would allow more skill advances in a league so a longer league. Many player can’t even advance in a skill because they are already at a 3+. If the players started higher on the D8 stat line it will give the player more advances before they are maxed out.
At times playing the skill 4+ teams vs the skill 5+ teams feels like to much of an advantage for the higher skill team. If the two teams started at 5+ vs 6+ (instead of 4+ vs 5+) it would be much less of a difference. This would balance the team a little better. On two dice it reduces the difference by 6% and that will add up over a league.
You have made two great games. I love them both and I try to get everyone I know to try them out. Thank you for them. I do appreciate the thought and effort that you put into them.
Jake,
this weekend we invented a home rule, that I like so much, I have to write it to you. We were speaking about inability of strikers to do fouls and gayness of judwan. Then we come with this idea:
why striker cannot throw ball into holocircle in other strike zone as he is standing? Even if it would be recognized as foul. It would bring possibilities as:
-I can’t move far enough so I try to hit three-pointer from one point striking zone (but with only one dice because of distance)
-I am running at three point strike and my opponent interfere, so I have to improvise, because I cant see holo ring, so I throw it into one-point worth
-I need just two points to win, so I throw ball into one-point worth holo ring, but from three pointer bonus tile, so no will be counted (only the foul)
this will give opportunity to play aggresively even to peacefull teams as judwan, asterians, or veermyn
I have put this elsewhere on quickworthy but here seems more applicable…. What do chaps think. I like the idea of a defensive slam play. Only just got the game so yet to practice. My idea… Which i shall try out….. It is to allow guards a two hex move to slam an opposing player who has moved. Its like the run interference play but is allowed every turn (in the opponents turn) but only for guards. The normal rules for slamming/slam back/dodging would be followed, expect the slamming defensive guards cannot perform any actions prior. Hence they cannot evade and commit the defensive slam or react to an opponents attack then subsequently slam. I think this may allow a pro-active approach to defence and would force the attacking team deal with them to score
And also. What about freeing up the jacks movement restriction of one hex prior to slamming/stealing? Only allow normal movement, so no dash etc. get those jacks performing!
Hi had a thought on making forge fathers abit more equal. I play rugby and we are not allowed to hit back when tackled like in Dreadball. However we are allowed to handoff so why not in Dreadball. This could be another option when slammed in your front arch but it is tested on your strength. While not injuring it could spin the player so you can avoid the slam. This then hives an option to the player who is stronger but not as dodgy like the short ones
Midguard Delver strikers are very weak, they need a mega credits drop or a change to the rules, as having Strength 3 is useless on them, they never use it, and speed 5 and movement 4 makes them the worst strikers in the game, couldn’t you rework the rules to allow strikers to fight back with their str 3 in the front arc but that the result is like a dodge, as if they shrug off the attacker. so they can’t ever hurt or kill an opponent but they can stay alive a bit better.
Or
Better yet, make it that steal checks are vs the opponents strength, as their grip on the ball is so strong that it makes it hard to steal.
The Delvers’ strikers may be the worst in the game. Someone has to be 😉
As I commented above, some players do have other ways of getting out of close situations such as Misdirect. However, I don’t feel like this is the way to go with the FF. It just doesn’t fit their character in my view. I’ll need to come up with something else for the short ones…
ok i just think an easy way is make them have at east 1 roll that needs to be a strength check. Hence the idea of strength for holding on the ball as in grip.
Could maybe making their armour a 4+ instead of 5+ balance them? as that would at least allow them some survivability.
So compared to an average striker, they dodge on 4+ save on 5+
Dwarf striker would dodge on 5+, but save on 5+ giving a similar result, they still would be slow, but at least they wouldn’t be fragile, which is what they are right now, and a fragile dwarf seems wrong.
Changing the armor stat for 1 striker breaks the lore. Which is clearly explained as the levels of protection affored by armor is set by the position. I am not a fan.
Making FF a little better may well be linked to jacks getting a boost. I am willing to accept the FF make rubbish strikers.
I get the established law, but the higher armour save doesn’t have to be because of armour, it could be due to being a tough little dude who shrugs damage more.
or maybe just give all Dwarf strikers the “can’t feel a thing” rule.
It seems law wise the Tough Midguard strikers are not represented, yes they are slow and can be caught by aggressive opponents easier but they are tough, they shouldn’t get injured more often then a human.
Mathematically if dwarf strikers were given this, they still get doubled just as often in a slam, but they won’t be sent off/injured/killed as often as they do now.
Heres the maths of success rate to not be injured (current striker vs My version Dwarf striker)
suffering 1 wound: 70% vs 100%
suffering 2 wounds: 22% vs 70%
suffering 3 wounds: 8% vs 22%
suffering 4 wounds: 3% vs 8%
suffering 5 wounds: 1% vs 3%
as you could see this would result in the Midguard strikers, acting more like their background story of being tough but slow. they still would be the worst strikers, but at least they won’t be injured or killed every game.
Yep I have done the maths to death if you want to see the results they are on my blog the daily punter.
We came to the conclusion that strikers could do with grizzled but the testing is far from over and jakes comments about them being the worst striker and someone has to be means we are looking at other ways to improve the little guys.
never mind found it 🙂 i like the brace rule, i think there should be a double result, maybe a double causes the opponent to fall over as if they ran into a brick wall.
Another thought i had, which came to me after reading so many people complaining about not being able slam with strikers, is why not just make it strikers slam at -1, so Guards have 4 dice, jacks have 3 dice and strikers have 2 dice.
Giving the keeper guard a handoff ability to a player in a threat hex would also mean, Guards can become a 4/10 in ball skills and 10/10 in combat, a jack can be 7/10 in anything, and a striker can be a 4/10 in combat and 10/10 in ball skills.
just seems to balance out well.
now speaking of keepers, your FAQ does not cover this.
A jack rolls for advancement on season 1 and rolls a 6, they may now choose from any table, any result. they choose keeper, what happens? do they get 4 dice 3+ armour and punt, 4 dice 3+ armour, but no punt since they can throw, or something else entirely?
on another topic, i feel there isn’t enough ways to score xp for playing the ball, while it might be intentional to make it brawling being the best way to level, could maybe making rolling 4 successes on a pass, steal or catch for a jack or 5 successes for a striker maybe reward 1 xp? because i tend to find guards level the fastest, strikers the next fastest (unless forgefather) and jacks the slowest.
Now that Season 4 is available for download… big surprise to me was the Brokkr Team… Any comments about Forge Fathers vs Brokkrs as far as it appearing like the Brokkrs are the superior team.. same stats… one more guard (and one less jack), Steady for everybody and Grizzled for the 2 Strikers… and same # of cards & dice as original FF team? Seems like the cost for the Brokkers models went down and they got upgrades too boot! Can we expect errata to the Forge Fathers to bring the up to snuff as it were? or a comment on the thought process here?
I too want to know about this, unlike the female humans that has a clause saying you can use the male humans to represent them, you did not include a rule to allow mudguard delvers to be used as brokkrs, and as such my local tournament say i must by a new team if i want to play brokkrs, which i just think is stupid, i don’t have money lying around where i can just buy another team overtime rules make my current team obsolete.
So can we get an official ruling as to weather delver models can be used as a brokkr team?
The Delvers are generally regarded as being too weak, and so when the Brokers came up there was no point in making them the same level as that would just compound the problem. Yes, the Brokers are better than the Delvers, which is why the Delvers have gone off in a huff to rethink their game plan (I think I mentioned this in the background bit). Being better than the Delvers should put them more on par with the other teams. That, at least, was the idea.
As to using Delver models for Brokers, personally I’d have no problem with that at all. The current tournament pack doesn’t mention this as it was written before they were. It’s being reworked at the moment. I only didn’t put it in the rules because I forgot. Now Mantic may yet overrule me on this, but for my money it seems unreasonably literal to stop you using Delver models to represent a Broker team. Obviously you’d need to tell people at the start, and it would be easier if you had the right models, though I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to play at all.
So, until the new tournament pack is issued, you can count that as an official FAQ.
We’ve discussed and decided ‘no’ until Jake says otherwise. If it doesn’t say Tail in the team/model’s stat, we are assuming they don’t get the benefit.
And another one: Winged and Direct Hit – do they prevent the model they are played on from using any action at all ? During our match last night I played Winged on the ball carrier in turn 12 effectively ending the match (except for exploding collars and slams) since he was unable to act in turn 13.
G’day Jake,
Thanks for a awesome game. I have just finished reading the season 4 book, and was wondering if Veer-men get the ‘Tail’ ability from now on, or is there a way for them to gain it through advancement?
Strength off a tail shouldn’t matter, but that it’s there to distract/disrupt a players concentration from slamming/stealing a player from behind who has a tail.
I don’t agree with that. Of course size and strength of the tail would matter. If I get 4 dice to steal, that tail has to be quite the distraction/hindrance/weapon to cut my effectiveness by 25% (-1 dice). Now, I’m all for it being a skill that Veer-myn CAN learn on a chart, but I think we are a ways off from team specific advancement charts.
Hey Jake, any hints yet as to how Crystallans will work? I recall they were supposed to benefit from cooperating or being in close proximity or whatever.
Having just read the DBX Player Manual and checking out the cost of the players in DBO Vs DBX, and now that DBO teams can be used in DBX. I have noticed that of the 45 different player positions (Season 1-4 teams, don’t have season 5 book yet. For a total of 17 teams) there are only 6 positions that have a different cost when using the ‘Ally’ costings. (Not including the Giants or MVP’s) Does this mean that I Can use the Convicts and Kalyshi from DBX in DBO games. The Convicts having 1 x Thug, 4 x Con and 2 x Runner which comes in at 70mc leaving 30 mc for 3 x Cards. The Kalyshi have 4 x Jack and 3 x Striker which comes in at 89mc leaving 11mc for a card with 1mc in the bank?
The rules for the teams will come from the DBX rulebooks.
I would like to try out the Convicts in a league/tourney setting coming up soon.
I popped an email over to Adam following the show to start a discussion over some of his points but I wanted to post here also to see what Jake and the other readers thought.
First, am listening in over in the UK, congrats and a massive pat on the back regarding the show.
“Regarding your last show, #33 – Jacks, one thing I think you overlooked in your show was the general tactical implications of the current (perhaps a little vanilla) jacks.
Speaking from my own experience Jacks are a key position on the pitch more for their passive and potential role. We know that guards are better at hitting, we know that Strikers are better at scoring and your right in your assessment that the bonus dice coupled with action efficiency is what makes this possible.
Your comment about the Z’zor jacks rolling for a +1 skill was bang on the money, it changes the balance and dynamic of the team, achievable through improved action efficiency (a tactic I use with my sphere team, 2 upgrades per jack and I have a team of 2 guards, 2 throwers and 4 strikers)
At the moment your basic Jacks are used as roadblocks (essentially action efficiency de-buffs for your opponent) which makes their placement & facing crucial as you deliberately don’t want to spend valuable actions on them.
the void sirens highlight my next point well, with the sheer number of them in the team coupled with the running interference rule, forces you to focus attention on what the jacks ‘could’ do. I find this makes my opponent much more hesitant and cautious. No matter the team, all jacks offer a credible threat that shouldn’t, but often is, ignored.
Last point, and my favourite, is how the Jacks synergise with the Deck of cards. I find myself, and my opponents often save up extra action cards to allow jacks to do things your opponent simply is not expecting. This only works because of the Jacks lack of typical action efficiency leads you opponent to underestimate them and leave weaknesses in their set up that a Jack wouldn’t ordinarily be able to exploit (we see this more with earlier season teams where Jacks had more average stats and not specialised like those of the rebs etc)
All said I am definitely of the opinion that jacks, as a position, should be left (globally) alone, though if changes were to be made then I believe a team by team approach is required, mainly to bring older teams in line with the level of variety we are seeing with some of the newer teams.
Saying that a well played S1 corperation team can happily face most opponents, do they really need a performance boost?”
Quirkworthy 
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DreadBall vis basic/macro enabled Spreadsheet that does, well just about everything including player improvement. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ba968yvgne9q90h/DREADBALLTEAMS.xlsm
If you wish to tinker the password is WD40
Spread Sheet showing the complete Orx slamming story- against everyone, and with no, one and two assists.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/toa1scbpdm0l6t0/Orx%20odds%20of%20hurting%20everything.xlsx
Slamming theory for those interested.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/io72wngf1uji0fy/slamming%20theory.docx
DICE TESTS – The full story. The probability of each possible number of successes for 5 die, 4die, 3die and 2 die tests. And in each case for each possible 2+, 3+ etc.
Thanks Keith. Lots of numbers for people to crunch there 🙂
Hi Jake
A wild shot in the dark here. I recently saw an XBOX 360 game of Australian Rules Football which made me think there must be a market. I have spent decades playing Grid Iron based games, and now years with DreadBall (Ice Hockey?) and I decided to make a game that feels like “Australian Rules Football”.
Firstly, I tip my hat to you, game design is not easy! I have however developed a competitive (with personalised teams) game which while 6 versus 6 (I left 18 v 18 very early!) contains the core spirit of AFL. The game is played roughly 50 minutes, contains ruck work, hard ball gets, hand passing, kicking, marking and more.
I am lucky as a Teacher Librarian to have a instant play testing cohort of 12-15year olds at school and the game evolved a lot over the last few weeks (at one point it “worked” but there was to much running and not enough kicking/marking).
Anyway, I was wondering if you might run your eyes over my game “At the contest” and I would also appreciate any advice on how I might go about getting it published.
If you are happy to do so then please email me at kmullumby@bigpond.com and I will then email you the dropbox URL’s (rules, team sheets, tables).
Keith Mullumby
SLAM ANALYSIS Just use the spin boxes to dial up the offense and defense and instantly see the probabilities of all possible outcomes: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bw1d2b0axz7qq2/automated%20exploding%20dice%20III.xlsx
Or if you have an older version of office:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvdqqjegi3kdk90/automated%20exploding%20dice%20IIII.xls
Enjoy.
Howdy all, does anyone know of a good online resource that teaches Dreadball tactics? Other than pretty rubbish threads on the Mantic forums and elsewhere that just descend into random drivel, I can’t seem to find any.
I’m trying to improve my game 🙂
I don’t think any exist. If you find any please add a link.
I’m trying to start one here: http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?3591-Dreadball-Tactics-Generic-and-team-specific&p=43887#post43887
That’s right. Pick on the poor old Forge Fathers 😉
Seriously though, it’s not a bad format. I look forward to seeing what anyone else can add.
Why thank you very much Jake. I’m hoping that people will post on it, as I think it would be a very useful resource. Why not drop one on there for yourself? I’m sure it would add validity to the thread and help get the ball rolling 😀
any chance your going to add the season 2 lists to the spread sheet keith?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jbcadup50wilh85/season%20two%20tester.xlsm
Please feedback on this, as it is still a world in progress.
why is the judwan and robot team member 1 and 2 blank?
jut a thought can be adjusted.
looking forward to the rule book release btw, my daughter wants void sirens, pink and black after the ny ladys football team on a film on tv last week.
The short answer is “because I took the Veer Myn procedure and removed th e guards to do the Judwan (less work)”.
I can shift them up though, stay tuned.
I have a question about the teams.
Is there any posibility of choosing your initial roster configuration? ie: create an initial Human team with 3-4 guards and less strikers for playing a very strong teams league or begin with more or less coach dices
I think this will increase a lot the playability of the teams
For me, that would skew the flavour of the teams a bit and sway them off balance.
I just picked up the Gabe MVP at the UK Games Expo and I can’t find his rules anywhere. So what are they?
Apparently Gabe is under licence as soon as the licence is sorted it wil be available.
My latest band greatest team ready for our Season Two: the Tuscan Swordfish 😉
Err *and
While watching an AFL game today the commentators basically chastised a player for going for a mark(catch) that he had no realistic chance and yes for DB fans a turnover occurred.
It did make me think, professional players always know where they are on the field and a team should be able to incorporate a DON’T CATCH IT WHEN YOUR ON A DB HEX play rule. that is the pictures I’ve seen do seem to have the hexes marked so the players would know when they are on them.
It should be possible in my view for players to be bright enough to judge when they have a chance and to bat the ball away when they don’t. But if that is not possible then they should be able to follow the instruction – ONLY ATTEMPT TO CATCH PASSES FROM FRIENDLY PLAYERS, CALLED OVER THE HELMET COMS (see page 31 of the season 2 book, they have helmet COMS).
Sure your team might miss out on some loose balls, but surely that is your franchises choice?
Not necessarily. The sport’s governing body rules that players must attempt to catch the ball. That’s the rule.
This is just the same sort of thing as the many real world sports rulings which generate debate.
Fair enough, I guess it was not clear that it was an actual rule of the game in the DB universe that a coach in the DB universe would read and be familiar with. It struck me more as an assumed action by payers with gloves in a type of situation, that of unexpected loose ball at 300mph.
I perhaps ask for a lot, but how does the in universe rule read such that it differentiates between a loose ball at 300mph coming at a player and a ball that has been thrown at a player with intent o injure at 300 mph. I assume the rule allows the dodge for the second action as per the DB rules in our universe. But the rules for a coach in the DB universe will not mention turnovers or actions, how do they phrase when a player MUST attempt to catch and when they can DODGE. Depending on this rule will answer my question on training my team to DODGE all loose balls. Also important is how the referee is meant to differentiate between a loose ball and a ball thrown with intent to injure when watching the player who attempts to dodge.
Finally given you can ask players to break every other rule, why not this one? And if a striker did break this rule and fist the ball and it richoted next to a team mate what would be the in universe penalty? It seems that there is no in game penalty but the other team gains the initiative (starts moving players) but how would that be written in the rules my in universe coach would read and coach to?
It’s all about DREADBALL the Movie!
I can see the scene where the coach explains sucker punch to a player but:
Coach: When a loose ball from a launcher or scatter heads for you jack smith I expect you to try and catch it.
jack: Ok coach.
Coach: When an opponent throws the ball at you, dodge!
Jack: Ok coach.
Jack: Coach, what do I do when I see the ball coming and don’t know where it came from?
Coach: ……………
coach: Well Jack Smith you should evaluate where the ball came from, think about it till you are sure, then either dodge or catch. BUT remember don’t think for too long or the ball will just scatter off of you (and possibly injure you) and the team will penalised for you not catching or dodging by, well the penalty is, that is to say………
And the player is to stop and think about the origin before deciding to catch or dodge? I’m not sure if you have ever seen the break down of car stopping distances but often the biggest bit is the distance the ball travels before the driver puts his foot on the break. To add thinking about “did the ball scatter of that player (=catch) or did he throw it at me (=dodge) would seriously hamper your players ability to do anything.
To put forward a possible solution that makes the movie scene work, we go back to the coaches reply.
coach: Well Jack Smith when the ball has been thrown at you it will be travelling at 500mph, not the usual 200mph and inbuilt sensors in your glove will set off that dodge, dodge, dodge alarm in your helmet. When you hear that, you dodge, otherwise you catch.
Now that would work and solve everything, trouble is I invented it and I have no “ownership” of the story/game/universe.
Dreadball catching and passing explained in a way that meshes perfectly with all current rules and interpretations.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qca9qq08lon5lwt/DreadBall%20Catching.doc
See what you think.
Nicely done Keith.
Thank you.
I have thought of a point 7 overnight.
7) the reduction in dice at 4 and then again at 7 hexes is more about the increased difficulty of passing to where the receivers glove will be rather than where it is now. At close range it will move for 0.101 seconds, ad mid range double and at long triple that.
8) The calculations of where a receivers glove will be in more than 0.3 seconds are too complex (and unreliable) and this is why this distance is out of range.
On the curved path of some passes shots _ magnetic dipole in the ball
I have been thinking about this as well, and given the high tech 200 mph ball could easily have a strong magnetic dipole (north and south) and the DB field could be inside a capacitor (constant vertical electric field) then the striker could launch the ball with parallel fields (no curve) or perpendicular fields (circular path) or any angle in between (parabolic path). This would fit with the advantage gained by teammates when receiving information on the telemetry before the ball is launched.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cloud+chamber+images&client=safari&hl=en-gb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=m0q2UY6pHoWulQXOjYGoCw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=644#biv=i%7C24%3Bd%7CMWjOFPNOM04-fM%3A
Curveball, magnetic dipoles or bend it like Beckham
This pass around no less than 4 defenders between the passer and the receiver is legitimate, any Jack or Striker can make it.
This means our 200MPH ball can/does have predicable (at least by the thrower) trajectories ranging from dead straight to close to circular like this pass.
I would suggest the field is in a giant capacitor generating a constant vertical electric field.
The ball has a strong magnetic dipole which will allow the thrower to:
1) line the magnetic and electric fields up – no deviation
2) have the fields perpendicular – circular motion
3) have the fields at an acute angle – parabolic motion
This would go some way further to explaining how the receiver “receiving” the predicted telemetry from the throwers suit beforehand helps so much (when comparing a friend or foe under the bucket for a missed shot).
Cricket like importance to the placement of the seam which makes me smile.
http://news.discovery.com/space/clou…iful-music.htm
thoughts?
Random scattering for missed strikes
When Rutherford fired a Alpha particle gun at gold atoms he expected a scatter pattern totally behind the target atoms which he believed had their mass uniformly spread out with electron plumbs ina positive pudding.
He was shocked when not all the deflections were accounted for and he moved the detector around and found some neutons had done a complete 180, as if they had hit a brick wall. Others had carried on forwards at various angles.
The only explanation possible was that the mass of the atom was concentrated in a small brick wall, sorry nucleus.
So to account for the scatter pattern of the strikes I would say that there must be some physical massive (or at least immovable) but small bit of holographic teleporter projector kit floating in the strike hex. For Red Dwarf fans a “Light bee” if you will but an immovable one.
Missed strikes that strike the Bee will generate a scatter pattern not inconsistent with the random role we use to model it in the game.
So again, taking some artistic licence for a universe which is not mine, yes I can explain the scattering.
Some discussion of a -1 penalty to throws passing through threat hexes is current on the mantic forums, IF this came to pass then:
Well, if the fluff provided on throwing and catching, “catches on” (it does have a ‘nicely done’ from Jake and 94 views with only 4 comments) then can I put forward how the -1 to throws through threat hexes would work?
How could a player move their arm or glove that far in the 50ms (a criketer gets 350ms against a fast bowler and 50ms is giving our players a reaction time 1/2 of todays olympians), they could not, but….
If a player with a DB glove detects an opposition throw through a threat hex with his FFR, then he can use the EM system in his glove (capable of stopping a 200mph steel ball in 30cm of flight) to attempt to disrupt the fliight of the throw with a highly directional short range EM pulse causing the throw to lose a dice. (Goblin Jacks perhaps have a telescoping of the main blade to cause the same effect). This would mean that only players with DB gloves cause a penalty to shooting/passing through their zones.
The Science of DreadBall collected into a single document
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hhlysktwthln1w/The%20Science%20of%20DreadBall.doc
You sir have gone crazy! But nice work on the science 🙂
Jake, don´t know where to post this…
I´d be very interested about how the player costs are calculated. I had a look at different players of different teams and it´s not obvious on first sight. Some abilities seem to increase the cost by 1mc, others by 0,5.
I guess the easiest way is to take the human team and go from there.
A human Jack is 8mc. Would a stat increase/decrease of 1 Increase/decrease it´s cost by 1?
Anyway, you know what I mean.
Would be cool to see a thread about that.
Thanks!
Lines
It doesn’t work like that Lines. The synergies are what’s really important here, and they’re ferociously complex to get right in points terms. So, a point of something is not necessarily the same cost for everyone.
Hi there, as an avid veer-myn player and leading the mighty rat men to a too four finish in the scottish nationals I was wondering with all the knew season 3 teams away to be released will there be any development in season 1 teams. So far I have found the rats to be reasonably competitive against all teams including judwan and void sirens however compared to other season 2 and the season 3 teams and was wondering was there any thoughts towards giving them a team ability to keep them competitive otherwise they may become obsolete post season 3 as judwan,void sirens and astarians are just far better.
thanks
Hi Marc,
I’m not sure how much difference there will be overall when everyone has had a chance to play the various different teams. At present the S3 teams aren’t even officially out yet, and so their relative potency has to get through the learning curve of both Coaches and opponents before we can properly assess how good they are, relatively. We’ve already seen a number of imagined disasters and calamities and experience has taught me that there is a natural cycle these things go through anyway. The S1 teams may need tweaking because the game itself has changed since they started, quite apart from the new team types. However, it’s too early to tell for sure.
Having said that, I’m not averse to fixing things that need fixing. I just need convincing they’re broken before I do so 😉
Thanks for the reply first of all 🙂
I do agree we will need to wait until s3 is out I just wondered if anyone else has found that other s1 teams are being outmatched by s2 regardless of each players ability. Thanks again for the reply and loving dreadball so long may it continue
As a side note that league I am in is 8 games in and so far my rat team(hakunaratatta) are top on points and team rating although 2nd and 3rd are two judwan teams with the majority of the team with skill3+ and SPOH so everyone who complains standard judwan are scary should play these two teams(one of which I have already landslided) but I have faith my rats can hold out 🙂
Sounds like you’re doing well in your league Marc. I have heard a handful of comments about S1 teams being underpowered, but then I also heard that humans were overpowered. Existing stats show that not to be the case, but as I said I think it’s early days. “Still collating” as Ash might say.
test
Hi Dreadball players.
I started a public Dreadball player map.
Add your location marker or look for players/leagues near you.
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zPlkLbUuothE.khwXpbMl9vyg
Lines
Jake, yould be great if you could add this link to the ones on the top of this page. Thanks!
Just wanted to put forward an idea I had the other day. I find using the PDF or rule book for team stat reference a big of a swine sometimes when space is limited, and I was looking across as a Warmachine/Hordes game and though team cards for each great – one per position, and then you can have one for each MVP too. Can have them like a mini deck in front of you for less space and speed of ref.
I don’t know if it is something you would be up for doing officially through Mnatic (could put the relevant cards in the the boxes/blisters ala Privateer Press too), but if we created reference cards ourselves, would that be okay with you?
Jake,
I am a supporter of Dreadball, I backed literally everything there was.. That being said, I just received my Season 3 shipment.. Imagine my surprise when I learned there where no rules for the backer created MVP’s and many of the late exclusive MVPS.. This has been brought up to mantic on their forum, they don’t seem to give a rat’s ass about answering us. You are the designer, and I suspect would have to be involved in any player creation.. So I ask you here, When can I expect rules for ALL of the dreadball players I paid cash for?
I would hate to start throwing wrenches in the Mars Attack KS, as a 300$ backer there, I think people would be outraged at the idea of being sold a model with no rules.. just as I am about the current dreadball models.
So whats the deal?
Mike
Hi Mike, sorry to hear you’re upset. Good point though. We’re wrapping up the tail ends of the DB KS at the moment. I’ve written my bits for the “making of” book and that’s being laid out now. I also write all of the MVP stats and have just this week got the models of the backer MVPS to reference. It’s always better if you can get the actual models when you’re writing rules as that helps make the model and rules look right together. Things don’t always end up looking as you imagined from the concept. It can be quite strange if the “delicate” player you’ve written turns out rather burly and 8 foot tall. Stranger things have happened.
There’a been a bit of back and forth (in a good way) between Mantic and the backers about what they wanted their characters to do, and I’m working those notes up into a final version now.
I’m not sure which other MVPs are missing. There are so many that I lose track and tend to just work off the list that’s given to me.
AFAIK the rules will be digital downloads.
Hi Jake,
Thank you so much for the swift response. I had hoped we would see rules for them; but Mantic isn’t saying anything.. Much like the inserts for the white team boxes.. There were threads in lots of places asking for them.. and no inserts.. Suddenly here are the inserts.. Mantic would do itself a huge favor by just letting the rabid fans know what is in the works.. We can accept we are working on it, and expect something in Q1, even if it is just some raw / rough ideas..
There was all the backer MVPS, 3 or 4 of them, Blaine or whatever that guy was.. seems like a couple more have to check.. I am still trying to sort out my S3 order so much stuff came. I am on the other side of the US from my home for a couple weeks but I will get to the bottom of the mvp list I have when I get home.. I should be able to put every model to a picture. If it is of value, I can post pictures of what I have without rules after I get it sorted out..
Thanks Michael. You shouldn’t need to give me the list, but as it gives you an excuse to rummage through a box of new toys I’ll encourage it 😉
I’ve got some urgent MA and DZ bits to do over the next few days and then I’ll sort out all the outstanding DB MVPs. So far that just looks like Blaine and the 3 Backers (I’m fairly sure there were only 3). I’ll use the time to double-check with Mantic that they don’t have anything else on their DB list. Well, I’ve already started looking at DBX, but that’s another story.
I’ll also mention the comms issues.
Nice one.
I may have to turn this information into a Daily Punter article now 🙂
Jake,
Thank you for the FAQ. Could you please include the errata changes for Judwans and the newest ball launch rules to the FAQ?
I am a Pathfinder and need a one-stop website to direct new fans of the game for FAQ’s and rules updates.
Sincerely,
That Lee guy
6 Dreadball teams (so far),
Deadzone “Strike Team” Kickstarter
A good idea Lee and an updated FAQ is overdue. On my list for when I get a moment 😉
>
Many thanks for this.
I am sure you are up to your eyeballs in Deadzone (Have not even looked at my copy myself).
Respectfully,
That Lee guy
I had a situation that came up in a game last night, where a jack with Running Interference did her thang against a player attemping to pick up the ball 2 hexes away. We were conflicted as to what happens next.
My argument in this situation is that as soon as someone enters the hex with the ball, they must try to pick it up (if they’re not a guard); the ball needs somewhere to be, a “state” if you will. Going for the pickup before the Slam would therefore give it somewhere to be. The Slam would then be resolved.
If this is the case, can the interfering jack apply their threat hex to the ball hex during the pickup?
The counter-argument runs that the Running Interference interrupts everything, including the pickup. The player moves into the ball hex and before they can attempt to pick up the ball, the jack moves a hex and Slams.
Is the ball simply in a limbo state while the Slam is resolved? Does it stay on the ground until whoever is remaining in the hex (if anyone) then attempts to collect the ball? Will it scatter at all?
I searched through the forums and here to try and find a resolution. The only explanation that I could find was provided here:
http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?4258-This-Running-Interference-came-up-tonight&highlight=interference
Since no-one else seems to have raised it, maybe I am being thick, missing the obvious and it’s simply option 2.
I love Dreadball and have started playing Deadzone, It is also an awesome game. After playing with deadzone’s D8 dice I can’t help but think how awesome Dreadball would be with a D8 instead of a D6.
The races in deadzone seem like they are more different from each other because of the D8 range of stats. At times in dreadball the difference between races seem smaller and certain positional players from different teams are almost exactly the same. This is the difference between a D6 vs D8.
The D* would allow for more variety of teams, because of the greater range of stats the D8 system would allow. I think as you add more teams the difference between them will be harder and hard to maintain. It will require more special rules and in the long run it will make the game more complicated that just changing the stat lines.
It would allow more skill advances in a league so a longer league. Many player can’t even advance in a skill because they are already at a 3+. If the players started higher on the D8 stat line it will give the player more advances before they are maxed out.
At times playing the skill 4+ teams vs the skill 5+ teams feels like to much of an advantage for the higher skill team. If the two teams started at 5+ vs 6+ (instead of 4+ vs 5+) it would be much less of a difference. This would balance the team a little better. On two dice it reduces the difference by 6% and that will add up over a league.
You have made two great games. I love them both and I try to get everyone I know to try them out. Thank you for them. I do appreciate the thought and effort that you put into them.
Sincerely,
Ed
email: eepd3@aol.com
Jake,
this weekend we invented a home rule, that I like so much, I have to write it to you. We were speaking about inability of strikers to do fouls and gayness of judwan. Then we come with this idea:
why striker cannot throw ball into holocircle in other strike zone as he is standing? Even if it would be recognized as foul. It would bring possibilities as:
-I can’t move far enough so I try to hit three-pointer from one point striking zone (but with only one dice because of distance)
-I am running at three point strike and my opponent interfere, so I have to improvise, because I cant see holo ring, so I throw it into one-point worth
-I need just two points to win, so I throw ball into one-point worth holo ring, but from three pointer bonus tile, so no will be counted (only the foul)
this will give opportunity to play aggresively even to peacefull teams as judwan, asterians, or veermyn
what do you think? Write me a mail if you want
I have put this elsewhere on quickworthy but here seems more applicable…. What do chaps think. I like the idea of a defensive slam play. Only just got the game so yet to practice. My idea… Which i shall try out….. It is to allow guards a two hex move to slam an opposing player who has moved. Its like the run interference play but is allowed every turn (in the opponents turn) but only for guards. The normal rules for slamming/slam back/dodging would be followed, expect the slamming defensive guards cannot perform any actions prior. Hence they cannot evade and commit the defensive slam or react to an opponents attack then subsequently slam. I think this may allow a pro-active approach to defence and would force the attacking team deal with them to score
And also. What about freeing up the jacks movement restriction of one hex prior to slamming/stealing? Only allow normal movement, so no dash etc. get those jacks performing!
Please, is Dreadball going to be traslated to Spanish? PLEASE 😀
Hi had a thought on making forge fathers abit more equal. I play rugby and we are not allowed to hit back when tackled like in Dreadball. However we are allowed to handoff so why not in Dreadball. This could be another option when slammed in your front arch but it is tested on your strength. While not injuring it could spin the player so you can avoid the slam. This then hives an option to the player who is stronger but not as dodgy like the short ones
In effect, this is what some players can do with skills like Misdirect. I’ve just kept it specific rather than generic.
Midguard Delver strikers are very weak, they need a mega credits drop or a change to the rules, as having Strength 3 is useless on them, they never use it, and speed 5 and movement 4 makes them the worst strikers in the game, couldn’t you rework the rules to allow strikers to fight back with their str 3 in the front arc but that the result is like a dodge, as if they shrug off the attacker. so they can’t ever hurt or kill an opponent but they can stay alive a bit better.
Or
Better yet, make it that steal checks are vs the opponents strength, as their grip on the ball is so strong that it makes it hard to steal.
The Delvers’ strikers may be the worst in the game. Someone has to be 😉
As I commented above, some players do have other ways of getting out of close situations such as Misdirect. However, I don’t feel like this is the way to go with the FF. It just doesn’t fit their character in my view. I’ll need to come up with something else for the short ones…
ok i just think an easy way is make them have at east 1 roll that needs to be a strength check. Hence the idea of strength for holding on the ball as in grip.
Could maybe making their armour a 4+ instead of 5+ balance them? as that would at least allow them some survivability.
So compared to an average striker, they dodge on 4+ save on 5+
Dwarf striker would dodge on 5+, but save on 5+ giving a similar result, they still would be slow, but at least they wouldn’t be fragile, which is what they are right now, and a fragile dwarf seems wrong.
correction, i mean Dwarf strikers would be 5+ dodge, 4+save, giving roughly the same net result in a majority of situations.
Changing the armor stat for 1 striker breaks the lore. Which is clearly explained as the levels of protection affored by armor is set by the position. I am not a fan.
Making FF a little better may well be linked to jacks getting a boost. I am willing to accept the FF make rubbish strikers.
I get the established law, but the higher armour save doesn’t have to be because of armour, it could be due to being a tough little dude who shrugs damage more.
or maybe just give all Dwarf strikers the “can’t feel a thing” rule.
It seems law wise the Tough Midguard strikers are not represented, yes they are slow and can be caught by aggressive opponents easier but they are tough, they shouldn’t get injured more often then a human.
Mathematically if dwarf strikers were given this, they still get doubled just as often in a slam, but they won’t be sent off/injured/killed as often as they do now.
Heres the maths of success rate to not be injured (current striker vs My version Dwarf striker)
suffering 1 wound: 70% vs 100%
suffering 2 wounds: 22% vs 70%
suffering 3 wounds: 8% vs 22%
suffering 4 wounds: 3% vs 8%
suffering 5 wounds: 1% vs 3%
as you could see this would result in the Midguard strikers, acting more like their background story of being tough but slow. they still would be the worst strikers, but at least they won’t be injured or killed every game.
Yep I have done the maths to death if you want to see the results they are on my blog the daily punter.
We came to the conclusion that strikers could do with grizzled but the testing is far from over and jakes comments about them being the worst striker and someone has to be means we are looking at other ways to improve the little guys.
I’d love to, could you please provide a link 🙂
never mind found it 🙂 i like the brace rule, i think there should be a double result, maybe a double causes the opponent to fall over as if they ran into a brick wall.
Another thought i had, which came to me after reading so many people complaining about not being able slam with strikers, is why not just make it strikers slam at -1, so Guards have 4 dice, jacks have 3 dice and strikers have 2 dice.
Giving the keeper guard a handoff ability to a player in a threat hex would also mean, Guards can become a 4/10 in ball skills and 10/10 in combat, a jack can be 7/10 in anything, and a striker can be a 4/10 in combat and 10/10 in ball skills.
just seems to balance out well.
now speaking of keepers, your FAQ does not cover this.
A jack rolls for advancement on season 1 and rolls a 6, they may now choose from any table, any result. they choose keeper, what happens? do they get 4 dice 3+ armour and punt, 4 dice 3+ armour, but no punt since they can throw, or something else entirely?
on another topic, i feel there isn’t enough ways to score xp for playing the ball, while it might be intentional to make it brawling being the best way to level, could maybe making rolling 4 successes on a pass, steal or catch for a jack or 5 successes for a striker maybe reward 1 xp? because i tend to find guards level the fastest, strikers the next fastest (unless forgefather) and jacks the slowest.
Now that Season 4 is available for download… big surprise to me was the Brokkr Team… Any comments about Forge Fathers vs Brokkrs as far as it appearing like the Brokkrs are the superior team.. same stats… one more guard (and one less jack), Steady for everybody and Grizzled for the 2 Strikers… and same # of cards & dice as original FF team? Seems like the cost for the Brokkers models went down and they got upgrades too boot! Can we expect errata to the Forge Fathers to bring the up to snuff as it were? or a comment on the thought process here?
I too want to know about this, unlike the female humans that has a clause saying you can use the male humans to represent them, you did not include a rule to allow mudguard delvers to be used as brokkrs, and as such my local tournament say i must by a new team if i want to play brokkrs, which i just think is stupid, i don’t have money lying around where i can just buy another team overtime rules make my current team obsolete.
So can we get an official ruling as to weather delver models can be used as a brokkr team?
The Delvers are generally regarded as being too weak, and so when the Brokers came up there was no point in making them the same level as that would just compound the problem. Yes, the Brokers are better than the Delvers, which is why the Delvers have gone off in a huff to rethink their game plan (I think I mentioned this in the background bit). Being better than the Delvers should put them more on par with the other teams. That, at least, was the idea.
As to using Delver models for Brokers, personally I’d have no problem with that at all. The current tournament pack doesn’t mention this as it was written before they were. It’s being reworked at the moment. I only didn’t put it in the rules because I forgot. Now Mantic may yet overrule me on this, but for my money it seems unreasonably literal to stop you using Delver models to represent a Broker team. Obviously you’d need to tell people at the start, and it would be easier if you had the right models, though I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to play at all.
So, until the new tournament pack is issued, you can count that as an official FAQ.
Another question related to S4 – will ‘Tail’ also work for Teratons and Vermin?
We’ve discussed and decided ‘no’ until Jake says otherwise. If it doesn’t say Tail in the team/model’s stat, we are assuming they don’t get the benefit.
Teraton tail too slow and inflexible. Veer-myn tail too weak and stringy. lol
And another one: Winged and Direct Hit – do they prevent the model they are played on from using any action at all ? During our match last night I played Winged on the ball carrier in turn 12 effectively ending the match (except for exploding collars and slams) since he was unable to act in turn 13.
G’day Jake,
Thanks for a awesome game. I have just finished reading the season 4 book, and was wondering if Veer-men get the ‘Tail’ ability from now on, or is there a way for them to gain it through advancement?
Thanks for your time
Duane
There tail sadly isn’t strong enough to pose a threat Duane
Strength off a tail shouldn’t matter, but that it’s there to distract/disrupt a players concentration from slamming/stealing a player from behind who has a tail.
I don’t agree with that. Of course size and strength of the tail would matter. If I get 4 dice to steal, that tail has to be quite the distraction/hindrance/weapon to cut my effectiveness by 25% (-1 dice). Now, I’m all for it being a skill that Veer-myn CAN learn on a chart, but I think we are a ways off from team specific advancement charts.
In the mutants playtest rules, a striker can purchase a Veer-Myn tail to gain the ‘Tail’ ability.
Is it now plausible that Veer-Myn get that ability?
Hey Jake, any hints yet as to how Crystallans will work? I recall they were supposed to benefit from cooperating or being in close proximity or whatever.
If you haven’t seen, their stats are up in his latest blog post!!
Yar, saw it awhile back. Cheers though.
Hi Jake, Love Dreadball, so much that I’ve started to make YouTube match reports. If you get a chance to sit down and watch, they can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYoAloYsytk&list=PLXbafMwo_RBWviyo9xTbSuRsapFaVSIkp
Keep up the good work!
Having just read the DBX Player Manual and checking out the cost of the players in DBO Vs DBX, and now that DBO teams can be used in DBX. I have noticed that of the 45 different player positions (Season 1-4 teams, don’t have season 5 book yet. For a total of 17 teams) there are only 6 positions that have a different cost when using the ‘Ally’ costings. (Not including the Giants or MVP’s) Does this mean that I Can use the Convicts and Kalyshi from DBX in DBO games. The Convicts having 1 x Thug, 4 x Con and 2 x Runner which comes in at 70mc leaving 30 mc for 3 x Cards. The Kalyshi have 4 x Jack and 3 x Striker which comes in at 89mc leaving 11mc for a card with 1mc in the bank?
The rules for the teams will come from the DBX rulebooks.
I would like to try out the Convicts in a league/tourney setting coming up soon.
Just listened to the strikezone podcast episode #33. It was about the role of jacks and future plans to improve them. (show link below)
http://www.warmoreradio.com/?cat=97
I popped an email over to Adam following the show to start a discussion over some of his points but I wanted to post here also to see what Jake and the other readers thought.
First, am listening in over in the UK, congrats and a massive pat on the back regarding the show.
“Regarding your last show, #33 – Jacks, one thing I think you overlooked in your show was the general tactical implications of the current (perhaps a little vanilla) jacks.
Speaking from my own experience Jacks are a key position on the pitch more for their passive and potential role. We know that guards are better at hitting, we know that Strikers are better at scoring and your right in your assessment that the bonus dice coupled with action efficiency is what makes this possible.
Your comment about the Z’zor jacks rolling for a +1 skill was bang on the money, it changes the balance and dynamic of the team, achievable through improved action efficiency (a tactic I use with my sphere team, 2 upgrades per jack and I have a team of 2 guards, 2 throwers and 4 strikers)
At the moment your basic Jacks are used as roadblocks (essentially action efficiency de-buffs for your opponent) which makes their placement & facing crucial as you deliberately don’t want to spend valuable actions on them.
the void sirens highlight my next point well, with the sheer number of them in the team coupled with the running interference rule, forces you to focus attention on what the jacks ‘could’ do. I find this makes my opponent much more hesitant and cautious. No matter the team, all jacks offer a credible threat that shouldn’t, but often is, ignored.
Last point, and my favourite, is how the Jacks synergise with the Deck of cards. I find myself, and my opponents often save up extra action cards to allow jacks to do things your opponent simply is not expecting. This only works because of the Jacks lack of typical action efficiency leads you opponent to underestimate them and leave weaknesses in their set up that a Jack wouldn’t ordinarily be able to exploit (we see this more with earlier season teams where Jacks had more average stats and not specialised like those of the rebs etc)
All said I am definitely of the opinion that jacks, as a position, should be left (globally) alone, though if changes were to be made then I believe a team by team approach is required, mainly to bring older teams in line with the level of variety we are seeing with some of the newer teams.
Saying that a well played S1 corperation team can happily face most opponents, do they really need a performance boost?”
Apologies for waffling on, just my thoughts
Drew