One of the reasons I’ve been thinking about points systems of late is that I’m including one in the next addition to the Dwarf King’s Hold series of games. This third set (cunningly codenamed DKH3) is in development at the moment, and is due out early next year. Unlike the first two sets, this is not a standalone game, but builds on the earlier releases of Dead Rising and Green Menace. One of the core features will be more troop types for each of the existing 4 races, together with a mechanism for building your own choice of force for each scenario instead of just using the ones given (ie, a points system). You’ll also be able to play any of the existing scenarios with any of the 4 races, in any combination. At least, I think you will. There are a few wrinkles left to iron out, but that’s the idea. This will mean that you’ll be able to get loads more game play out of each of the existing scenarios as they can present very different challenges when you change both sides.
If you’ve read my comments on the future of DKH you’ll know that I was wanting to fit in some new races. Unfortunately that isn’t going to be possible. I’ve already bumped the rulebook up by more than 50% in size and it’s still creaking a bit at the seams. There’s just too much stuff I want to include. The Abyssal Dwarfs and the rest of the extra races will have to wait for another day.
However, the good news is that DKH3 will include about 20 new types of model to play, a points system to design your own forces, rules for 3 and 4 player games, rules for putting any army into any existing scenario, some completely new scenarios, new tiles, models and so on. Overall my idea is not to make it a different game, but to take what’s already there and give you the opportunity to explore it further.
It all sounds very interesting, I can see it being a challenge to work out what the best ‘team’ to take into each scenario is. The 20 extra model types sounds great too.
Any future plans to make a Dwarf Kings Hold: In Space! using the warpath models? If not i think there should be 🙂
Well clearly I couldn’t possibly comment on the idea of
PigsDwarfs in Spaaaace, but it does seem like a natural.
If I am reading you correctly you are saying there will be an expansion of the four races for DKH3 to include 20 new types of models just for those four races? Interesting.. I have found it fun and seemly easy to create rules for new races and even some types of monsters. What is not so easy to matching them in a balanced way with the current four races in DKH. At the moment I am working on that problem by trying to match all the races to balance as a group with seven orks as the control. I am still trying to come up with a characteristic for men as a race. My current thought is that they would be erratic in their activations where once in a while they would have a token that was a high value compared to the average to simulate a mob reaction. After all any race facing men should be nervous and uncertain about their next move. 🙂 To be honest making a points system to mix and match one figure at a time plus handling activations does seem daunting. Perhaps it will seem more obvious if I can get defined groups to balance in some practice games. I am also painting up pack animals, carts and porters so each group will have baggage to help add an objective to the table. Now I got my new DKH green menace to open 🙂
Each of the currently supported 4 races will get 5 new stat lines (= troop types) to play in the game. Some of these “troop types” will actually be characters rather than rank and file types, but the exact mix is not yet entirely nailed down and will almost certainly vary between races. I think that some of Mantic’s best models are the character models they make, and it seemed a shame that I couldn’t use them in the game.
It’s good to hear that you’re having fun making new things up for the game. You’re right that balance is always an issue (for many of the reasons discussed in the recent points articles). Having a control group/model is the simplest way to start, and I’m intrigued that you picked a group of Orcs.
And yes, “daunting” is a good word for it 🙂
Any chance of it including hero rules?
All in all, it sounds fantastic.
It’ll probably include rules for some characters, though they will be predefined rather than flexible. The rules for mutable characters are way too long to fit in this along with everything else, and more properly belong in DKH4 🙂
Yeah, when I talked about heroes I was thinking in predefined ones.
Glad to know they will be there. Thanks for the response. 🙂
Excellent news Jake, I am excite 😉
If the potential rules are increasing by a large amount, what’s the feasibility of publishing additional material in a book similar in size to, say, the Mantic Journal or the KoW rules, rather than just be restricted to what you can fit into a box release?
DKH3 will be a boxed release because we wanted to include some models and tiles as well, and that’s the only real practical answer. However, by the time we get to DKH4 (which is another expansion rather than a standalone game) we will have included pretty much all of the available plastics and you’ll already have a load of tiles, so we have discussed the possibility of it being a book or some other format. This hasn’t been decided on yet as we’re still working on the final details of DKH3 and that needs to be done first, but it’s certainly being considered.
As always, it’s also worth considering how popular it is, and so the success of DKH3 may impact the timing and format of a DKH4 release.
… and so the dream of Fishmen slips a little further away… and the light of the world grows a little dimmer. 😦
Well, perhaps, but perhaps not. DKH3 and 4 are not necessarily the only outlet for new material for Dwarf King’s Hold. My problem with Fishmen is mainly one of getting models I like for them. When I’ve sorted that…
The Carnevale fish men look good. Just add the slime characteristic and you are good to go. 😀
My current favourite ones are the Deep Ones from Fenris:
But they’re out of stock 😦
I was reviewing the Zombie rules as I have not used them yet. Given how hard it is to smack a live fish on land I think you could just use the zombie rules as written for FISHMEN… Some adjustment for a shark man (sharkasaurus) would be needed if you need to include some. Perhaps five dice attack with the same defense as a fishman?
I was thinking that the Fishmen would be a great excuse for some new special rules: Slippery Customer, The One That Got Away, etc.
Hey there. We played Dwarf King’s Hold the other week and it was great. I was defeated by a girl, as is life. I was very happy with the game and the tactical aspects. It was even exciting to watch, trying to guess what each player was going to do. Wondering what tokens they had.
I was wondering if any card elements or templates (Hero Style if you will) are being planned? Can’t wait for the 3/4 player rules!
Hi Poosh! Glad you’re liking the game. I’m not sure what sort of “card elements or templates” you’re thinking of. Could you explain a bit?
I’m looking forward to this, I still need to pick up green menace, but from the sounds of it DKH3 will be an either/or in relation to DKH 1 and 2 if im reading this right
Dead Rising and Green Menace are both stand alone games. You can play either one without the other, and everything you need is included.
DKH3 is an expansion to both Green Menace and Dead Rising (and will be even more useful if you have both). However, you must have one or the other of the first two boxes because DKH3 is not a complete game on its own.
DKH3 is a way to get more gaming value out of Dead Rising and Green Menace by expanding the armies and allowing you to mix and match forces in the scenarios (among other things). It is intended for those who enjoyed the first two sets and who may have more figures they want to include in their games, more people who want to play at the same time, and who want to generally expand on the Dwarf King’s Hold experience.
I am a bit perplexed. I spent a fair amount of time looking at rules and trying to adjust them to my objectives before DKH. What was interesting about my game adjustment efforts before DKH was that it was a chore to work on it and while I could change the relative value of the new characters they remained flat and characterless just like the base rule set I would be trying to use. After DKH I have found that it is fun to make changes and the result has a lot of character that continues to provide satisfaction. My kids like making dungeons with the tiles but I find that I burn out on making new tiles layouts fairly quickly. However making up new races and heros is a blast and so easy with this system.
Now the perplexing part. I am having a good time tweaking DKH but it seems that if others are doing it they are not posting to the web. Just seems odd that DKH game mechanic is easy and fun to tweak but it seems that it is not being taken advantage of.
You are not the only one that finds this a bit odd. Still, one can hope that people are just having so much fun doing it that they haven’t got the time to post 🙂
When I get down to making my own cards I will have to post the process to my web site. I have been slack putting things on my web site because I am spending so much time painting and building things. 😛 I did get my 12 foot “game” table well on it’s way to completion but I need to tile some floor so I can get a spray booth going which returns to my custom cards process because I want to print on card stock with an inkjet printer and use card sleeves and my experience in the past with inkjet printing is that it does not work well with things like card sleeves unless you seal the ink with a spray sealer. At least I should not get bored this winter. 😀
Aha! I was right – too much fun to post 🙂
Looking forward to seeing it in all its glory!
Oh by the way. I also have the bits together to build my alternative to that girly driller dude 🙂 It is a bit larger and steam powered so I expect I will have to come up with new rules for it. The Hirst Arts stuff I am building is a bit more open compared to the boxed tiles which I have to consider when I work with balance of the races/factions. I ordered some minis today to add pets/companions to some of the other races I am adding as the dog, cat and rats seem add fun to the game. Some days it seems like being at the play ground with your ball and wondering where everyone else is.
They’ll all want to play. Just wait and see!
Maybe we need to go out and evangelise 😉