I’ve been reading some pretty alarmist nonsense of the interwebz of late about Mantic’s as yet unreleased Marauder Orx for their as yet unreleased SF game: Warpath. You may have noticed I said “unreleased” twice there. That’s the clue.
People are getting all bent out of shape about how terrible and disastrous things will be when Mantic release these miniatures. Apparently the oceans will turn to molten tin and the skies will rain marmalade. Or something. Either way, it won’t be good. How do they know? The models aren’t out yet?
It’s like this: Mantic showed some photos of the painted models a day or two ago. It seems that they’re based on their original orc sculpts for Kings of War, and that spells Disaster. To me this sounds like unnecessary panic and dismay for two main reasons:
1) You’ve not seen the models yet (not properly; not as sprues, not up close).
2) Loads of models in all mediums (plastic, resin, metal) are routinely converted from previous ones, and nobody bats an eyelid. Happens all the time and probably a lot more than you realise. GW and Privateer do it (along with pretty much everyone else in the business) and have done forever, so why shouldn’t Mantic follow the industry norm?
How about we start again…
Hi everyone. Look! Mantic have made some cool new space orcs called (wait for it) Orx! They look a bit like this:
From the other side the sprue looks like this:
See. That didn’t hurt, did it?
Now I think that they look like they should build up into a fine bunch of models with an appropriately mix of armour types and finishes, odd-looking weaponry with blades and gubbins bolted on and a characteristic feral appearance all round. Sound Orcy/Orky (Orxy?) to you? It does to me. So why does it matter whether they’re conversions of other models? How is that relevant when they’re on the tabletop, chopping ForgeFathers into catmeat? Doesn’t that just mean that you’ll find it easier to make your army look even more cool and feral because you can swap bits between kits and know they’ll be interchangeable? I’m seeing a bunch of positives here and no downsides.
Of course, if the Mantic Orc style isn’t your taste then they’re not for you, but you knew that anyway. If you imagine Orx in silver spandex leotards, or smart uniforms with upside-down V logos on the chest, then you need to play a different game (and possibly see a psychiatrist). Most folk expect Orx (however they are spelled) to be feral and nasty, vicious and scruffy, ramshackle but psychotic aliens. This looks like them.
I can take other photos of these if anyone wants to see particular bits, and I do have the command sprue as well if anyone is interested 🙂
If you guys can play nice then I’ll put some more pictures up tomorrow. I’ll also have a go at building some and showing the bits, etc if anyone’s interested later in the week. Maybe I’ll even dig out some of the KOW ones and see how they fit in, or (shock, horror!) try to get some paint on them. No, I didn’t think you’d believe that.
Of course, I understand that not everyone can like everything. That’s cool. But let’s leave the spurious arguments to the politicians. If model A is converted from model B that says nothing at all towards the qualities of either model. It is irrelevant. Let’s comment on what we have now.
Well, I am definitly not a fan of their hybrid kits (they really are a p.i.b. to put together and having to touch up all the gaps is also not nice)…
Compared to the designs we were shown they are a step back. I don`t have problems with converting minis with extras for SciFi, but with withis minis there was to few altering.
Hybrid kits can be a pain, due mainly to the technical variables being different between materials. What I mean is that plastic and metal behave differently, have different shrinkage rates and so on. This means that an item which fits perfectly in the original will almost certainly not fit in the final version (by an unpredictable amount). It’s like the problems getting good fit on large models (think old metal warjacks), but worse.
I’m not sure I follow your last sentence. However, your mention of designs is interesting.
Mantic are still feeling their way a bit here and are smoothing out the process as they go. This is only to be expected as they’re still a very young company. That’s not to excuse them. If you make rubbish then it’s not unreasonable for people to point it out, but I don’t think they (generally) do. What some of their ranges are is *different*. For example, the Elves are wispy and thin, unlike the GW norm of lumpen bricklayers with pointy ears which most companies copy. I’m not sure they nailed it, but I am sure that I think they’re closer to what I have in mind for them. The Orcs are their other major departure. Again, they are thinner and more wiry than the overinflated GW Orcs. I think they look much more like credible creatures, myself, but that’s just my view.
Whether the final model is like the original concept drawing is an old gripe for many people from decades before Mantic were around. Translating something from 2D to 3D in a form that is producible commercially is tricky. In many ways this is an acknowledgement of the fact that you can draw stuff you can’t sculpt, and that both the concept artist and the sculptor need to be able to understand a bit of the other’s trade to make the appropriate compromises where necessary. I’m sure they’ll get closer over time. However, I’m not sure that this is as big a miss as some folk say.
I think this sprue has some of the same faults that the “original” orc sprue had: It offers too little variety. Having torsos and legs in one piece (and even one head and an arm) limits your poses significantly unless you’re planning some time consuming conversions. Was this really necessary?
Another problem is the fact, that the number of extra bits is fairly small and some of the parts (the spiked helmet, the knives) look too fantasy for me. This sprue doesn’t say “new sci-fi orcs inside” it says “fantasy orcs with bits that don’t seem to fit that well”. It’s ok and probably enough for many players, but I would have expected a bit more. Even with the additional sprues (I’m expecting a sprue with heavy weapon guys based on the greatax), this release will never be a real “must have” for me. It’s ok, but some chances were missed and I think that’s a shame.
And please don’t tell me that the Forgefathers will be bases on the ironwatch… please don’t!
I think that you’re right Darkover, there are some missed opportunities here. What I’m doing is reacting to the vitriol and abuse they’ve been getting elsewhere and wondering aloud what is so utterly wrong with them. They are not the best models ever made, but they are a good long way from the worst. They are, I think, perfectly acceptable models for the basic troops in an army.
When it comes to how many bits you chop a model into, it’s a recurring debate. I think it depends on what you want to do with it. Napoleonic figures are the best illustration of this. There are two main companies that make hard plastic 28mm Napoleonics: Perry and Victrix. The Perry figures have gone the route of very small numbers of parts per figure, with minimal posing. Victrix make each figure a multi-part kit. Which is right? My thinking is that for a mass battle game with big regiments you want something that goes together quickly (Perry). If I was playing a skirmish game and wanted more dynamism I’d want more options (Victrix). Even in a mass battle I might decide that some individual regiments of skirmishers were better served by being multi-part kits (Victrix) even if the bulk of the army was simpler (Perry). How many bits something needs to be in depends on its use. For me, rank and file basic troopers are better in small numbers of parts, whilst I’ll spend the extra time and effort on elites and characters who should stand out. I remember getting all enthused about a GW Tau army and buying loads of stuff, only to be completely put off by the myriad tiny fiddly pieces needed for each Fire Warrior (their basic trooper) when I tried to assemble them. That was the end of that idea.
Getting back to these Mantic Orx, I think that they’ve got a reasonable balance here. They are intended to be the core troops of a large force and so I personally think they’re right to plump for a smaller number of parts per model. Like the Napoleonics, this doesn’t make them individually the most dynamic and varied models possible, but it does mean that you have a fighting chance of putting together an army before you get bored of dropping the fiddly little bits on the floor (like I did with the Tau).
Well, I do like Mantic, else I would not have helped them and Warlord and Riverhorse out on the Nuremberg Toyfair… 😉
I do own quite a sizable Undead army of Mantic Undead and only replaced the Wraith, Reavers and the Lich King with some external models that to my eye fit better in with the rest. And because I do know what Mantic is capable of the Orx are a little bit a let-down to me. Sure it may cost a little bit more to add some extra bits, but I think that would pay off since folks would buy more of them. At the moment they have less variety than the undead, look less scifi and that irks me. It could have done better. The same goes for the Elves Seahorses… something that never should have left the drawer as a product that is going to be sold. There are some design standards in miniatures that even the cheapest companies should be capable of because of general experience and established standards. And sometimes Mantic goes below even those standards. Not very often… but the few times it does it bugs me because they burn credit with the customers, which makes them less money.
And the orcs would have definitely benn better received if some more scifiness would have been invested in them.
I agree that companies sometimes release stuff that should never see the light of day, and the “seahorses” are probably one of them. I don’t think they’re well liked. My view of the Orx is that they’re not as exciting as they might have been and so yes, they are a little disappointing. They are the most basic of the troopers though, so I’m hopeful that the more elite ones are better. certainly, the other ones I’ve seen so far have been more dramatic – but that’s what you’d expect. I”d be nice to think that Mantic could respond by making some extra bits that would address some of these issues of a lack of “scifiness”. How much is enough though? Aren’t Orc/k/x generally imagined as being primitive and feral (and therefore less “scifi”?).
It’ll be interesting to see how they look when you see them as part of a whole army. I think with trikes, artillery, tanks, heavy weapons and so on around them the lack may be much less apparent.
>>>Aren’t Orc/k/x generally imagined as being primitive and feral<<<
😉 Don`t ask me, I always played the Noble Wild/Hun/Osman Orks from Confrontation and Chronopia and they always had the really nice gadgets. Basic gadgets but nontheless gadgets!!!
Which actually illustrates my point that SF isn’t just one thing and that cultural variations can explain all manner of varied appearances 🙂
You mean… like the Japanese Mecha designs that only vary in little things but are called by a completely different name 😉 ?
I mean that a cultural imperative can have an impact on appearance regardless of technology. For example, Tibetan Buddhist monks look pretty much as they did a couple of centuries ago regardless of teh fact that they may use satellite phones to communicate; a Saudi Prince may wear a suit some of the time, but a traditional robe and headgear for state occasions when his appearance sends a cultural message. The much discussed wearing shoes or not for Orx could easily be a cultural decision rather than a practical one. I’m not saying that this IS why the models are like they are: I don’t know. Just saying that this is a perfectly possible and plausible reason and that SF can be very varied. It doesn’t just have to be 40K again. And again. Yawn…
OK, good thing that Mantic decided that naked Orks were not the cultural imperative of the day! 😉
Maybe that’s being saved for the elites 🙂
*Voice of Higgins from Magnum P.I.*: “OH MY GOD!!!
I think a lot of the irritation comes from the fact that mantic is doing something which is outside the comfort zone of many gamers.
Almost every other miniature company goes the higher quality/less models way, compared to GW. Most non-GW fantasy/sf games aim for skirmish games and basically stay out of GW’s way. It would be interesting to know if this is due to GW’s dominance or due to financial constraints.
Here you have a company that flips the script: “cheap” plastic models that compare to GW’s product quality a few years back. OK, they offer some nice free generic rules to play but in essence they are aiming, to a large degree, for gamers that play GW games and are in search of a cheaper alternative for their core units. And they are not exactly hiding it, if you look at their choice of races: either popular (orcs, dwarves, …) or neglected (abandoned) by GW (naughty dwarves, space dwarves).
I applaud mantic but what they are doing is quite common in other markets. Perhaps a sign of a maturing market.
Now Varrak, that’s why I have this blog: I hadn’t thought of it like that. You are entirely right: lack of comfort zone = complaints.
I’d love to think of it as a maturing market. Time will tell.
Bare feet are the problem. No boots. Laser guns but no shoes.
Saving grace is the Orcs have no chainmail. Chainmail in space looks really bad, and hasn’t been seen since Rogue Trader when they bulked out the Ogryns with Ogres.
Why are bare feet a problem? I think they’re a good visual shorthand that says primitive and feral. Zulus didn’t need shoes at Isandlwana, yet they massacred thousands of well-shod British. Masai are famous and much feared warriors that other tribes would carefully avoid, whether they had a European with shiny brogues with them or no. The Masai had no boots. Orx are aliens and come from who knows where and have who knows what anatomic peculiarities. Perhaps they have a cultural aversion to them. That’s no more silly than people wearing fully enclosing robes and veils, or facial piercing, or scarification, or being afraid a camera would steal one’s spirit, etc. Real world culture is full of things that appear odd to outsiders. Perhaps it’s a sign that they are still one with their traditions. I don’t know, but I see the blind charge of “no boots = bad” to be a little lacking in imagination.
I’m not so set against chainmail in space Curis, and I’ll tell you why. Chainmail made from steel would be an unexpected find if we extrapolate a future from 21st century Earth. But is that the place that Warpath comes from? I don’t know. As this is fiction, I don’t see why we can’t imagine a place that has had slightly or more than slightly different technological advances (or even different physical laws). In the last century our military has gone back to wearing body armour that was abandoned centuries earlier. Chainmail was used in WWI. The reason that it is not commonplace today is that its job (providing flexible protection) has been replaced by developments in ballistic cloth. If that had not been discovered I am certain that we would still be seeing chainmail in use. It was used for a thousand years, so I think it was probably pretty effective. I don’t know what the Warpath background says, but that sounds like a perfectly credible reason why an SF world might have it. Quite apart from the “they’re from a barbaric world” argument, which is what you normally hear (and, I think, overused and rather lazy).
I don’t think there should be laws for what you can and can’t have in SF. It’s science FICTION. What I think is important is whether the world Mantic have created for these games to inhabit is exciting and coherent or not. And we don’t know that yet.
“How do they know? The models aren’t out yet?”
That’s the problem: they /have/ been released. The bottom half of that sprue is exactly the same as the bottom half of the Orcs sprue – have a look if you don’t believe me.
“I don’t think there should be laws for what you can and can’t have in SF.”
I do. The most important law is this: Don’t suck. If you need to resort to saying “It’s science FICTION,” it’s only because it has failed to follow that one law. If it didn’t suck, we wouldn’t care.
The problem is that there is no universal definition of what sucks. You don’t like them, fair enough. Being rude about them won’t make them any different, and what is important is that rants are seldom listened to whilst constructive criticism gets attention and results.
As I said above, being partly a conversion (or even identical) to other models is not relevant to whether these are good models or not. Could they have been better? I’m sure they could. But the fact that 99% of models ever released could be improved upon should point to the fact that this too is not much of a useful metric to judge by.
If you prefer GW figures, PP, Olley’s Armies or whatever then vote with your wallet. It’s a commercial product in a big marketplace.
Bare feet are an issue as they’re an obvious hangover from the Fantasy range rather. It’s something that’s recongisably olde worlde, and gives me similar feelings to seeing people who’ve replaced Orc Arrer Boys’ bows with boltas, only to leave on the quivers. More an oversight on the behalf of the designer, not a lack of imagination in the viewer.
The Warlord has shoes. The Raptor Gunner has shoes. The concept art shows them with some sort of armoured sandal. The decision to have shoes seems to be a unintentional cost one rather than a background one.
But hey, as Andy says in Shawshank Redemption – “I mean, seriously, how often do you really look at a man’s shoes?”
Perhaps everyone higher up the food chain can afford better footwear 😉
I’ve not see a lot of the other Orx models yet to compare. The only one I have seen is the gunner model from the trike (and I can’t remember his feet – as your quote says) and the big character model. He’s got very fancy footwear, but then he has very fancy gear all round. Everything he’s equipped with is clearly a step or six above the grade that the lowest footslogger gets. Might being right, that’s hardly surprising.
All I bemoan is the sad lack of orclings with laser guns.
Oh yes, I’d forgotten about them. Maybe they’ll be along on the next bus.
I like them, I think all Warpath teasers have been handled well but you will always get knee jerk reactions and first impressions from people who cannot help but compare Mantic’s new offerings to GW on every level. I would never take anyones opinion away from them but I always try to look at things in an individual way. I do the same with almost everything, films, books, games etc. I like new shiney toys, and reserve judgement until I can lay my grubby little mits on them…This may seem a timely way of doing things but it has always worked for me. +1 to Orclings with laser guns, and how amazing are the character models?
The character models do look a step above in quality, though that’s not a big fat surprise. It is, in fact, another industry norm. Sad, but understandable.
I may have to do some asking about orclings, at this rate. I had completely failed to notice their absence. Now I’m curious.
You will always get varying reactions to new stuff. I’m just trying to get a bit more of a measured response and to ask people to do a bit more of what you do. Let’s look a bit harder before we get all bent out of shape. I’ve not put one of these together yet, so I’ve not got a final opinion, but I can see some potential here. As is sometimes the case, I’m not very gone on the official colour scheme, and that can make a perfectly good model look less appealing. We shall see.
I think you’ll always get comparisons between Mantic and GW… Mantic does everything FOR it to happen ! They made their own bed, in my opinion… Their new Orx get judged the same way as everyone else’s.
If Mantic didn’t get compared to GW it would be a big shock for all concerned.
I think that there will always be a negative voice when something new comes out. We are all so ingrained with the GW take on orcs it is great to see a new take on them. I think when people actually see them and make them up especially along with the other sprue they will be pleasantly suprised. With their compatibility with the KOW orcs there will be a lot of scope for kit bashing. The Mantic metal sculpts are getting better with each release and I hope we will see some conversion blisters in the future (more ax heads and arms for example).
Great ‘honest’ blog and I look forward to reading more.
Thanks Tom. You echo a lot of what I’m thinking here. There is a tendency for new things to polarise responses: either they’re rubbish or they’re the saviour of humanity. It’d be nice if we could try to skip that bit and get on with the mature assessment a little sooner.
Dreamer? That’s me 🙂
I think they’re okay can’t say I was surprised by teh new whinge-storm (see I can’t stop saying it now I am even using it at work which is dangerous).
My criticism as I told my FB Group are they just left me cold. I was actually surprised by how amazing the Forgefathers are, I wasn’t expecting that I was really impressed and so have all my friends been.
Then we saw the Orx hero and got excited then the troops were released and uh oh…res-sculpts…You’re totally right EVERYONE does it (look at Warlord Games they practically take it to an art form!) but for a new line I think it is fair to expect more.
My next issue is the $
So for a small amount I can get ten more figures which are nearly identical, If I then get a box of Orx and split the weapons up I can make a fairly coherent sci-fi-rent-a-mob.
Is that what they want? For us to get the KoW figures and not get excited over the new product? Seems unlikely so that’s why I think they missed a beat. It wont be the last time or the first and they are still learning and I am confident they WILL learn (coughsdrakonriderscough)
But yes they look okay…
I don’t understand the price thing myself, and you’re right that it would be rather odd if they were deliberately pushing you towards the KOW ones now they’ve done the Warpath Orx as well. Not sure what to make of that price comparison.
From a fantasy perspective the Mantic orcs are my new standard in orc sculpts just like Avatars of War Dwarf Berserkers are my new standard in dwarf sculpts. Yes it would be nice if people stayed on task (finding better minis and better games in this case) as more progress would be made. This subject makes me wonder, do you know the average age of a war gamer and what direction the average age is moving?
The average age of a wargamer is guesswork, I’m afraid. As far as I’m aware there is no current survey data of any size and information is purely anecdotal. Anecdotally, GW’s audience is the lower end of the age curve, with other fantasy and SF games in the middle and historical gamers tending to be at the older end. Obviously these are huge generalisations, but that’s my guess.
if anyone *does* know of any research on this I’d love to be pointed in the right direction.
In model railroading this information is collected. For model rails the average age is 45 and climbing. This is useful information for the manufactures to know and it seems like someone would have done this for war gaming. The relentless rise in average age in model railroading leads to talk about how to promote the railroading hobby to the young (little do they know it is all GW’s fault 🙂 ). The way I look at it is enjoy a hobby and let others know why you enjoy it there is no need to present to school children etc.. because other people will notice if you are having a good time. I am looking to have a good time I don’t want to turn it into a promotional job.
I’m intrigued to hear that the model railroad industry is organised enough to do the surveys. I have heard similar sentiments about introducing the idea of gaming to the young. I don’t think it has as much problem as railroading though.
I do agree entirely with your idea of having fun and letting people know it as the best promotion.
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Hi Jake. A great, honest and quite honestly refreshing piece of feedback, based on FACT and not FICTION. I’ve said elsewhere in detail that I personally love the Warpath Marauders, that the style based on KOW Orcs perfectly fits the background description given of a race of creatures who are basically having to scavenge their existance from others tech. Why thus, can’t they have grinning icons on their chestplates? or multi-layered tabards full of plate mail festooned with grenades?
I made my opinions based on simply the background and a rumour. Now, thanks to you, and Mantic/BOW I have seen the finished product and I am digging on these Mangalorian (?) type creatures.
At the end of the day, one man’s oranges are another man’s potatoes, or something to that effect, and we are only talking toy soldiers here. 😉 Each to their own.
I find your comments a little patronising, Are people not allowed criticise mantic? They released concept art that looked great, but the photos they showed on BoW did not live up to it. What we got was their fantasy orcs with sci arms….just because its all on one sprue doesnt make it better. I feel let down by mantic, ive always supported them and will get into warpath regardless, but they should have been upfront and told people these would be hybrids, instead of letting the hype build up. What disappoints me most is that Mantic really missed an opportunity here… they have showed what their capable of with the stormrage veterans, imagine they had employed the same skill sets when they worked on these..I think alot of people would have been impressed. I want mantic to do well, I know theyre still a small company and very young, but there is no excuse for these, like i said, they have proved they can do better. I pray the basic forgefather troops will not be based on their fantasy dwarfs, but I have a feelin my prayers will not be answered. For the record, I really like their fantasy stuff, I have some…….but that doesnt mean I want them with sci fi bits stuck to them. Hopefully Mantic will learn from this.
I’m sorry if you find my comments patronising, Tim. That was not the intent. Of course you can criticise Mantic, GW or anyone else you like if that’s what you want to do. I’m not their guardian.
The reason I wrote this was that I got bored of reading ill-informed, vitriolic rants about a bunch of models that were not yet released and of which people had seen little. As far as I know there were no pictures of this sprue available before I posted this, and painted models are not the same. Had they been converted? What else was on the sprue? How many pieces were they in? None of this is obvious from the final, painted models, but now you can see for yourselves. What I would like to see is some informed and reasoned debate and so I put up some pictures so people can see what they *really* look like.
If you don’t like them, that’s your choice. I profit nothing whether you buy them or not. It makes no difference to me. However, I am curious to know WHY people don’t like them if they don’t. Personally I don’t expect to get them myself because I prefer shooty armies, so for me it’s about tactics and game-play not aesthetics. What I do find odd is that when someone gives me a reason for disliking them and I rebut that argument, they don’t often have an answer. It’s not a case of right and wrong, it’s the psychology behind their decisions. Why do people like A and not B? I work in game design and have done for many years. If I write something I want it to be successful and popular. Understanding why people think the way they do, and why they like the things they do, makes me better at my job.
It is psychology at play actually Jake. If I said a descriptive word to you any descriptive word at all, say apple. Then I ask you to think of an apple, you will invariably visualise your perfect apple. If I then give you a concept of an apple and you think it matches with your ‘perfect’ apple you get excited. Then when I whip out the apple and you see its the same as every other apple you feel let down. In the case of these Orx I think people wanted to see something ‘new’. Plain and simple its a human desire to see new things, and the fact these have in effect already been seen will disappoint many simply as part of natural systemic response.
As you know I own a huge Mantic Orc army for KoW. As things currently stand I’m not actually looking at getting into Warpath and if I was, like you I’m not too sure it’d be the Orx I would be looking at. Not because of these miniatures by the way, which I think are perfectly acceptable in a way. However as an interesting aside, given the way KoW and Warpath both work its not possible to say that the miniatures are simple wound tokens in the same way as you would say WFB and 40k and I wander whether that will ultimately have an impact on how people view these miniatures for the games. Because in effect they’re not quite as disposable as the rank and file are in a game of WFB… so if they’re on the table longer do we want them to look nicer?
I as always don’t have the answers to any of the questions I ever ask. However I will say that I do understand much of the criticism of these miniatures from a purely emotion point of view. I don’t understand some of the criticisms on the aesthetics of the models being not sci-fi. Like you I’m not too sure I want sci-fi to be that narrow and definable. If you just don’t like the look of them then that’s fine just don’t say they’re not sci-fi. Look at Mad Max, wasn’t that sci-fi as was Blade Runner, as was Tron… I’m not too sure I can find many visual similarities between them though. I’m tired and I think what I’m trying to say before my eyeballs start bleeding is that I can understand some of the flak Mantic are taking and I think a lot of it is unjustified and can’t we all just learn to get along without the insults people? Remember don’t have an opinion if you think you might get upset if others disagree with it. Jake has a point, he’s allowed to make it.
In comment to the post earlier about foot ware, maybe boots are a sign of status within the Orx culture. Young Orx being bare foot until the ‘coming of age ritual’ at the holy foot-locker store!! 😉
You could do shoe boxes as objective markers too 🙂
Hi, thanks for the reply. To be honest, Ive never commented negatively before on a forum in regard to any company, its not in my nature, but I was just so disappointed with what I saw on BoW. For me, its alot to do with aesthetics, what I expected and wanted was this: http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/HUB%20PAGES/MARAUDERS/Concept-Marauder-Trooper-1.jpg and this: http://www.manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Warpath_Cover_Final.jpg …. I dont like the fantasy torso in a sci fi setting, I feel the sci fi add on/conversion bits look wrong on fantasy torso, it just doesnt seem to fit. I dont like the bare feet… for me it screams fantasy, not sci fi. I feel what I have seen so far, doesnt live up to the concept art.
I hope this supports my point of view a little better as I dont want to come across as being negative for the sake of being negative. I do accept that other people will have their own opinion.
BTW, after having a first look into the new Rules for KoW. Does one know a good source for infantry mummies (i.e. cheap enough so I don´t have to sell my wife to get a unit or two)?
Off the top of my head, Ebay always has some old HeroQuest mummies for not much, and the old metal mummies from GW aren’t that popular (so they’re not too pricey).
You could also look at Reaper who have lots of D&Desque things. For example: http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/03523/latest/03523
And Otherworld (more pricey, but v nice): http://www.otherworld.me.uk/udseries.html
I’m sure others could suggest some favourites.
Think I found the right thing….http://www.shop.battlefield-berlin.de/index.php/katalog/showarticles/26900-1-untote.html
Yup. Wargods would do it. They’ve got some lovely models in their range, but I’ve never met anyone who plays it. There must be someone.
I did, game play was OK but as there were only two of us playing it it kind of went the way of the dodo. Still have some of the (very nice) miniatures.
Cool. From what I saw it looked OK, but as you say, you need opponents…
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Well at least I have a source for mummies if Mantic takes too long to sculpt some….
Their Wendigos would make good Werwolfs too…
as long as mantic puts out some really cool elites/heroes I will survive and as a painter buying one box of these may be fun to paint but I agree their should have been more poses price really makes up for it though 🙂
I’m playing with the sprue now, deciding what to put together, and I just keep wanting to convert them. Plastic is so lovely to work with 🙂
One Sci Fi game that has chain mail in space I can think of is Fading Suns. Also lack of shoes is in 40k as well the Kroot lack shoes and wear next to nothing. I will wait for the Plague to come out and maybe use my Kroot as proxies of Marauders for now.
Tristan, thank you for that. I had a quick rummage in my old Citadel catalogues and also found (space) chainmail on several old 40K models from a number of different races: Ogryn, Gretchin, Eldar and, you’ve guessed it, Ork 🙂
Is that the role-playing game?
No idea. There’s this: http://www.redbrick-limited.com/cms/index.php?categoryid=19
and there was a PC game back in the 90s called Emperor of the Fading Suns (or something like that. I don’t know either well enough to know which, or whether it’s a third option.
How dare you write a blog that is balanced and sensible! You’ll give internet the a bad name. Personally, I am very excited by warpath. Ok, its not a finecast GW ork waross. If you want that, I know plenty of suppliers you can go to. These are new (ish) and the forgefathers look awesome. Thanks for the pics, I am looking forward to getting my hands on some to paint.
Thanks for a chance to look at these frames. Any chance of showing off the forgefathers?
I’d love to show you the Forgefathers, but I don’t have any 😦
I’m sure it won’t be too long you old scrounger you. 😉
I think the term you were struggling towards was “talented forager” 🙂
Doesn’t quite scan in text does it? Read the first in american.;)
Very Dissapointed with these . They aren’t even a conversion, they are a new batch of accessories for a bottom half of the sprue (bodies mostly) that are exactly the same.
Keeping the ferral thing is fine, but Mantic missed a golden opportunity here for new body sculpts that might pursuade fantasy/KOW players to buy the sci-fi figs and 40k/Warpath players to buy the fantasy figs in much the same way that many 40k’ers buy WHFB orcs to mix and match with their forces.
I also feel that there is just a touch (not much, but a bit) of underhandedness in offering pre-release deals for a new game without revealing that some (perhaps the majority) are going to be bodies that have already been released.
Thank goodness I didn’t buy any of the pre-release deals!
My main interest is in the space dwarves, but if they are just rehashes like this, then I may pass.
I think you’re right that they missed an opportunity to really shine here.
I’ve not seen the ForgeFather basic troops yet so we’ll have to wait and see.
I only knew Mantic for their KoW miniatures before. I really liked what they did:
First and most importantly, relatively cheap miniatures. Available “en mass”, and designed so you could use them to play KoW or any other fantasy system you’d like. (You get my point ?)
I was like “Hey those guys could really come and bump the big guy in his own backyard, nicely done.”
Then I read about Warpath. I play 40K. I play Orks (well, building an ork army). I’m wondering if I should go with the pre release order. No photo though.
I check the leader miniature, love it, check the artworks for grunts, love them. I pass an order.
… and now I get this. Which looks nothing like the artwork or the leader.
So I feel just a tid bit “scammed” by Mantic. And I doesn’t feel like ordering again. Not on blind thrust anyway. Not without extended photos of their product.
It’s just my experience, but I think maybe, just maybe, other people might have felt the same way. Even without ordering.
that’s fair comment. If you’re not keen on what you’re seeing then you’re bound to be disappointed. I would be too. What I am now reading on a couple of forums is that people are finding them less troublesome when seen as part of an army. Apparently Mantic have been putting out some army shots (not seen them yet myself).
Sure, when people see less of them at a time and when the details are lost in the crowd (especially the feet and loinclothes), they’re bound to be less “bothersome”. Just like when you use GW fantasy orcs proxies with sci-fi bits in a game of 40k. But they’re proxies, not regular, “official” troops.
As you know, I can be qualified as an “orx detractor” here (although I wouldn’t have used the word “patronising”)…
For all sorts of reasons.
I agree with Toin and with Tim.
I think, details-wise and quality-wise, these troops don’t live up to their hype… Nor their concept art.
In my opinion, you don’t lauch a new sci-fi game (especially if it’s direct competition for 40k, with similar races, and so on…) by peddling recycled designs. This is just not done.
Even if some of the troops could conceivably be that, at least Mantic should have the decency not to brag about it by making it a part of a big promotion of their new game…
I feel bad for the people who pre-ordered this, and, as a part of the BoW Team, I feel slightly bad that people pre-ordered this on the basis of what they saw on our website… But only slightly, because we only publish what we get from Mantic after all.
Being an “Orx detractor” sounds mildly painful. Perhaps there’s a cream you can get for it.
They do fine as rank and file models in a block regiment (as KoW-Orks) where individual details are lost in the crowd but I feel they are too limited in pose and options outside that. That might change with more sprues and thus more options. But if the basis for further sprues are indeed the bodies from the greataxes that is still too limited for my taste, especially if I have like a hundred of them that don´t wittle away fast as with 40k, but potentially stay longer as in Warpath (it seems to me). Even the basic Black Reach Orks as two part models offer you plenty of variety and dynamics.
And I want plenty of dynamics and currently they feel like they won´t offer me the amount I would want. I could still try to cut them up but as they are one part torso/legs, that poses to be more difficuilt as e.g. with the GW Orks.
As I loathe the style itself (purely matter of taste obviously) I am waiting eagerly for the Forgefather plastics. The heavies I do like a lot but as unfortunately the gap/difference between restic and plastic models is quite wide in the mantic ranges, I am slightly anxious. They manage to come very close to the concept sketches with the restic minis but not as much with the plastics (so far). If the difference is a big as with the Marauder Infantry (as so far) Mantic will see nil of my money.
Is “restic” a contraction of “resin-plastic”? I’ve not heard that before. Good idea.
Yep, heard it on brueckenkopf-online.com for the first time and I think it makes sense to have such a term. The reason André gives is perfect. ^^
We should all try to use it every day. Feed the meme!
Yep it is. Both are plastics technically speaking…. but that makes it easier for people to understand without breaking out the molecular structure chart….
I hate it when I have to do that 🙂
Yes nothing ruins my day more than advanced polymer analysis phew : )
Also weirdly I quite like the “tuning” fork weapon…
Its not that i dont like them, its the fact GW orcs are better looking. Mantic are trying and are small in the world of GW. But for me if a model is more pleasing to the eye from another company then they will get my cash. It boils down to rules for me not so much money because to have quality you need to pay for it. If warpath is a better rules system than 40k i can use GW minis with warpath can’t i. Or is that being rude.
You can use miniatures from anywhere to play anything. This is completely true in the privacy of your own home. You’ve bought the game and the soldiers so why would they have any influence?
This nonsense about only being “allowed” to use a certain company’s miniatures is just that: nonsense. You may find that models to represent some specific unusual fantasy creature are only made by the people that make the game, but other than that you’re talking about the tournaments run by the company itself. If GW run a tournament then they can make up whatever rules they like for the participants, just as anyone else can. That seems fair enough: it’s their event. GW used to insist on all GW armies or you were removed. The only Mantic tournament so far said they’d like to see Mantic figures, but they weren’t going to chuck anyone out. In the historical tournament circuit I’ve never heard of anyone stipulating a specific company’s models, even when the tournament had a particular company sponsoring it.