Tried out the variant turn sequence I was talking about and it works very nicely. It retains the ability to act as co-ordinated groups whilst adding to the interactivity of the turns and also scaling better across different sized games. I think it’s a bit of a win/win.
The only fly in the ointment is that it requires counters to mark what has and has not yet activated in the turn, but that’s a small price to pay for the benefits.
I’m going to keep the details under my hat for a day or two while I test them again and write up a bit more of the linking mechanics (as this is all integrated with the command system you haven’t seen yet).
More mid-week when I’m back from visiting the Beasts of War.
Glad to hear it! Looking forward to reading more about it. Hopefully in time for our first test game on Thursday(ish). 🙂
Noooo, I find that type of system takes a lot longer to play.
It wasn’t today. We took a bit longer because we were using twice the model count in the Alpha. The turns went by very quickly.
Ill keep an open mind, but as of now I like the turn seguence you have developed, and hope that if I spend a turn manouvering I will still be rewarded.
The current turn sequence works fine for small games, but doesn’t do so well with larger ones.
Cool. Suspected that might be the case. Wil play test the new ones as soon as you feel they are ready to share.
not an instant fan of counters – could you just ‘force’ a movement order by rank, speed or alphabetical surname instead? 🙂
The problem with forced or fixed movement orders (however you organise them) is that it takes away a lot of the freedom and tactical options.
I went and used counters as activation markers in a differant game that night 🙂
It’s much more intuitive then I feared. Objection withdrawn 🙂
God of Battles uses activation markers so I know from playing that a couple of hundred times that it works fine 🙂
Since the models have 360 degree vision, if you dislike the counter idea (and I do dislike it) you could mark what has acted by turning it towards your table’s edge. Acted-turned one way, not yet acted- turned the opposite way.
I hope that counters are kept as a minimum. I’m not using them even in GOB (turn the leader in loose units, turn a guy in the last rank for formed unit, just remember for monsters).
Shoot, I was hoping for model/by/model stat cards – 1) they can randomize activation if you want that tactical option, 2) you don’t need to consult a chart or ‘codex’ to see your model’s stats, 3) you flip ’em face down and you know who’d go already mon!
You could always do that, but the stat cards have other drawbacks. There’s no perfect rule for activations – they all have something that’s a bit of a drag and it really just depends on which one(s) you’re less bothered by. A stat card for every model means that you need to be able to identify each individually, need more table space and it costs more. That’s not just DZ, it’s true of anything that uses that approach.
A light at the end of a dark tunnel appears ..
I for one am looking forward to this development. Sounds very similar to what Wild West Exodus is using, which makes me happy. Excited to read the next version.
No idea, I’m afraid. All I know about WWE is that it’s some sort of weird west that was on KS. Too busy with 16 hour days on DZ 😉
Very much looking forward to this.
Much better for large games.
Also makes smaller games a lot more fun.
Happy to read that, having to put activation marker is not a problem, it’s the price to get alternate activations without the cheeleader effect.
The only problem is that sometimes if you use lots of terrain it can be hard to find a clear place to put such activation counters near the model.
However a solution can be to have one card for each individual model and put the activation marker on the card instead of near the model.
The problem with that is that there will be multiples of some figs, ie. the 3rd gens. So then you have to find a way to keep track of which card corresponds to which mini.
But I guess you could always activate unit by unit rather than model by model… so there would be no problem with the 3d gen (unless you have more than one unit…)
See my comment above.
Amazing! I love the alternate activaction system so this is good news for me!
The counter problem could be solved by magnetizing the base and placing a metal or magnetic counter on it. It could be a flat marker so it doesn’t effect LOS just as long as it sticks to the base. Also I noticed that Mantic models are inserted into larger ring or square type bases so it could be easy to kitbash a magnetic ring or even a heroclix type dial which could show activated models, (altho that could be a pain with having to pick up the model every time you activate it and then arguments about placing would ensue). Of course, Blu tack could work too… 😉 Keep up the good work and I’m looking 4ward to trying out the next rule iteration… 🙂
All of these would work with one or other issue. As I mentioned above, having gone through as many permutations as I can think of and as anyone has suggested, they all have a down side. You just have to pick the one that gives you the best in-game effect and the least onerous down side. And mileage may vary. Luckily a great many of them are almost interchangeable.
Well, you are in any case going to need a way to track wounds so I don’t see much of an issue for adding tokens for activations. A lot of games use counters because they are easy to spot and help keep track; from Warhammer to Infinity. Even though Warmachine’s rules don’t require them all of the factions have officially produced tokens you can buy.
Absolutely. I don’t think the counter level will be anything unusual here.
I wonder if Mantic would be willing to make Snap on Counters that affix under the base of you DZ model to denote activation has occurred ??? That would eliminate loose counters and look cool. Plus is would open up the possiblity of status markers should the need ever arise.
Sounds painful, I would rather use a simple gemstone marker to denote that the model has been activated. that has worked for years in games such as Epic and Warzone. You can either remove all markers at the end of a turn and start again or remove markers as you activate on alternate turns. Depends on what is easiest for the player to remember.
the position of models matter, and you don’t wanna be picking up or touching models outside of when you’re actually spending a “move” action on them. (This is also why I don’t really favor the prospect of turning models around to show that they have acted)
Mantic are intending to offer a number of options for acrylic, resin or wickerwork counters of all sorts and are talking with various suppliers at the moment. I won’t tell you what we discussed as I don’t know which will happen in reality, but they sounded pretty good from what I heard. Keep watching the Kickstarter for more news on them.
Personally I’m not terribly keen on snap-on counters as it is proscriptive of the bases you can use. Having seen the models up close, I think that a sizeable minority will want to be adding detailed resin bases and other extras, which would make snap-on markers impractical. Add to that the fact that fiddling about with the base will inevitably move the model and you have a recipe for arguments, and I’d rather avoid that.
Small counters which can be placed beside a model that has acted are used in many games and work fine. There is also an alternative in getting extra sets of cards, marking your models so you can tell which is which and pitting markers on them to keep the tabletop free. This approach has a number of other drawbacks which I personally find more problematic, but suits some people and has no major impact on the rest of the game rules. I was thinking of listing this as an alternative option if people wanted to pursue it on their own.
Having read the BetaRules it is clear that during the game a number of counters are going to have to be used: Injured, Enraged and more now with interactive turn sequence. Since counters are going to be integral can you get Mantic to make them as small plastic icons?
For DreadBall I bought 150 magnets (1mm * 1.5 mm) from China for £5. On the underside front right corner of each hex base you glue a magnet, and you put magnet in the ball, so it sticks during play (I have VeerMyn which have lots of sticky out parts so its kindda necessary).
I think it would be a great Stretch goal to have small plastic icons which are moulded on one side only. Then you glue a few magnets to the hex bases of the Deadzone figure, glue the magnets into the plastic icons and now they just stick on during play. They will travel easily with the figure, they wont be a visually disturbance on the board, and the magnets are cheap.
Just about the magnet thing PB – have you ever tried clipping up parts of a nail, glueing those to the figure bases and [in your example] then putting just the 1 magnet in the ball? It’s sure cheaper, dunno if the grip is great enough. If anyone knows if this works let us know.
As I mentioned above, Mantic are looking into various alternative options for counters at the moment.
Looking forward to these mechanics Jake! Having recently played your God of Battle game, I have to say that I loved the ability to pass your turn and coupled with the stratagems, they really added a huge unexpected level of strategy that is easy to learn (if you remember to use them ofc, hehe) and allows people to pop some interesting surprises on their opponent.
If we don’t get faction dice, at least we can have faction activation tokens!! 😀
I look forward to seeing the videos and hope you have fun down at the BoW lair. They are a top bunch of guys that do a LOT for the gaming community!! As do you Jake. /salute
AKA Sheriff Mic Ironclad. 😉
Any chance we can get an update to the alpha rules with this change? I’d love to try this rule set before deciding how much extra I need to add on to my pledge haha.
Glad to hear this! I love alternative activation over IGUO – keeps everyone in the game, for one thing:) Table Space-Mable-Schmace: we use markers on unit cards (whether they are made for the game system or not….like DropZone Commander) to carry the weight of tokens. Though, I did make scenery tokens for Confrontation token/indicators. Can’t wait to see the updated test rules and am very excited about this development.
By the way, we played our first game this past week and LOVED it, IGUO notwithstanding:)!!!!!
I have a winner