Have a look at the different ways to earn VPs on page 41.
When you Kill a target listed on your mission, or scamper off with an item for Scour, it’s pretty easy to see that you should count those VPs from that point on. After all, the item ain’t coming back and the dead guy isn’t getting any better. Infiltrate is the same, as is Intel. Survive is simple as it only adds up and can’t be lost either. The only ones that seem to raise any questions are Capture and Control. When do you count these?
These are pretty straightforward too, though they aren’t the same as the others for the simple reason that they can be lost as well as gained.
In real battles, at both a local and grand scale, objectives are won, lost and won again. This can happen in a game of DZ too. You can gain Control of an objective only to have the controlling model killed, or an enemy move up to contest it. With Capture and Control, you have the VPs as long as you fulfil the conditions for that goal. If you subsequently lose Control then you lose those VPs. Easy!
Think of it this way. You get back from the operation, covered in grime, blood and stinking of cordite. Your boss comes over to get a one sentence summary before the full debrief. If your mission was to Kill someone and you did so, then your boss is happy. If you were tasked with Controlling an objective and the battle ended with it in enemy hands do you think he’d be impressed? Not so much. Even if you did control it at one time, early on? That’s not his happy face.
Or, to put it another way, unlike every other type of goal, Capture and Control have no memory. If you’re not doing it now then it never happened.
If the game ends by timing out, then just tot up your VPs at that moment, Capture and Control included. If, on the other hand, you want to claim a victory earlier, then you simply need to keep a running tally of how many you have at that moment. As you should be focussed on your mission anyway, what you need to do to win should all be pretty clear. Personally, I don’t worry about counting VPs till I’ve racked up a few (regardless of what kind of goal they’re from). At that point I take a moment (during my opponent’s turn) to work out what options I have for winning. What more do I need to do? Very often there are two or three different ways to win, though exactly what they are depends on which mission you have, what your strike team is composed of (or what’s left), and what you’re up against. Don’t forget that you can always abort a mission or simply go for wiping out the foe.
On a separate, but related issue, what happens if a strike team’s last model moves off the board to Infiltrate or Scour? Does the enemy win (case 2 of claimed victories) or do the VPs for the moving model count?
There are a small number of other situations in which a single action can result in both players being able to claim a win simultaneously. In common with all fun things, most of these situations involve explosives.
My ruling on this is that the active player gets to claim a win first. He is, after all, the one causing whatever mayhem is happening, and I think it’s appropriate to reward his efforts. If he’s managed to scrape a win by moving off his last model then good for him. Mission accomplished.
This ruling also has the advantage of applying to any situation when simultaneous claims could be made, whatever the cause.
That seems fair. My little project has loads of these rules that seem to need more explaining , and every time i read through the rules i have to tweek and change bits and pieces; How do you know when you are ready to launch a game or start wider scale testing ?
Gut feeling or production deadlines 😉
Nothing will ever be 100% perfect. At some stage you have to let it stand on its own.
Does a player have to claim a victory if he is able? I can imagine that in campaign play when infiltrating force has already left the battlefield (but without having attained 10VP), the player still on the table might want to check additional items and possibly gain some additional VP’s from objectives or infiltrating himself.
ha thats a good question I would asume that Game ends at the end of player turn.
A very interesting question.
My take on this is that because you can genuinely miss that you’ve won (as missions are hidden and people make mistakes) you cannot practically force someone to declare a hidden mission, ie claim for condition 1.
However, being in sole control of the battlefield is a different matter. At that point it is obvious that one side has won and their opponent is now no longer playing a game. As we are playing a game it seems rude to force them to sit on their hands while you mess about on the tabletop. When this has happened in my games I’ve always stopped at that point. In other words, I’ve enforced a win (and the end of the game) as soon as someone notices that condition 2 has happened.
In reality, you can imagine that the strike team sees that it’s job is done and returns to base before enemy reinforcements or counterattacks materialise. Once you’ve done your mission, hanging about is just asking for trouble. Saving your men is more important than risking booby traps and counter-attacks to pick up things that may or may not be lying about. Remember that you can see a lot more than the individuals on the ground could.
Ha – you reminded my what was the question I had at salute Jake. It was about C&C and you answered it now so – Thx Mate!
Thanks for the answer !
What happens with model that suicides (falling, exploding…) ? Does opponent get the points for this death he didn’t participate to deal ?
I already asked this on the FAQ page, but I had this case yesterday and we didn’t know how to handle this, I don’t see how to balance this point :
– in one hand if suicide doesn’t count towards enemy VP, you could prevent enemy from getting kills and VP and screwing his mission
– in the other hand, the enemy didn’t do anything to get this kill, he doesn’t deserve the reward (and perhaps he may not be able to know there was a suicide in opponent’s lines !)
I would add Survive missions need some precision : do we count the initial Strike Team value with items bought or only the models value ? Say I have 65 point models + 1 AP Ammo + 1 Frag grenade : do I get Survive check until I go under 35 (70/2) point value or until I go under 33 (65/2) point value ?
Hi Jake, we have a situation in which a player is claiming victory on his first turn. He plays Enforcers and his mission was capture X/Y/Z and started the game. Using his 3 pathfinders (troopers), they are scouts, so they were deployed very near the objectives. In his first turn, he moved the pathfinders on the objectives and at the end of his turn (not round) he immediately claimed victory. His opponent did not even had a chance to have his first turn! On page 42 (top) it says claiming victory at end of round, but then on page 43 it doesn’t say whether it is immediate, end of turn or round. What is the ruling ?
Hi Philip. You’re right that it could be more clearly expressed. This is the sort of thing we’ll be tidying up with the new version.
It’s checked at the end of the Round (as per page 42). Your opponent will at least have a chance to push you off some of the objectives before you can can claim victory.
Thanks for your prompt reply. My local community is eagerly waiting the new version.
Good to hear. There’ll be more about that in a few weeks, I’d wager.