I’ve tried a large number of slight variations on this theme, and I’ve ended up being quite brutal.
The cost per player has gone up slightly, but the biggest difference is that solid Phasers are just like other players. The reason I made this drastic change is that I wanted them to actually use their special ability, and with all the bonuses they were getting when solid, there wasn’t any need. Once you start paring those bonuses back, it makes little sense to keep some and not others.
Is it too much? I’m not sure. It’ll certainly change how they play.
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Ouch!! They got hit in a HUGE way! I’m afraid. Honestly, this really stops them from being unique, I’m afraid. With only six players on the team, injuries and deaths will take a huge toll in even one-off games. I do agree that they needed to be scaled back a bit, but it think the best thing is not to remove both of their defenses (speed bonuses and strength penalties) and just take one away. I think if they still provided -1 dice to all strength based tests for both sides, they would be a bit more survive able. As it stands now, they are going to have a tough time staying on the pitch. Their Guard will still be difficult to use, but it think that is a good trade off and mixes well with their ability and play style.
Please bring the strength penalty back or these ghosts will be dying again on the pitch.
Agreed. The penalties to both sides were the cool thing about them, it felt in keeping with the nature of the race. Now they are the equivalent of a better veer-myn that can go ghostly.
The last version was far better.
Yeah I have to echo the sentiment here. V2 was better. This team is just a speedier human team with the power to go insubstantial. They are kind of bland as they sit now. I understand there is a fine line, but these guys got hit hard when they didn’t have to.
Yeah, I’m going to have to agree with the masses on this one. Being hard to hit was part of their thing, now they’re just +1 speed Humans with a parlour trick. I can understand wanting to encourage the use of said parlour trick, but there’s got to be a better way of doing it…
Yeah… I agree with all of the above… they have no rules to represent their fluff when they aren’t activated.. other teams aren’t afraid to hit them, they don’t meld or fog or do anything on defense… and they get no bonuses (other than speed 3+ I guess if you consider it a bonus) when they have the ball or are trying to do anything else not requiring insubstantial.. but, I guess I need to test them out and see.. maybe speed 3+ and skill 4+ is good enough to compete but I feel like they lost a lot of flavor…
I’m sorry, but this went too far in the other direction. Now they’re Speed 3+ humans with two fewer players on the pitch… Yeah they can easily set up scoring opportunities, but I doubt they’ll live long enough to do that.
While I love the Ada-Lorana models visually, I think they’ll be on the back burner for me in this edition. My suggestion would to reintroduce the +1 to slams/slambacks to them. That would give them a much clearer niche in the Dreadball universe. They’d be very focused on playing ball, which I like.
They don’t need the +1 to Dodge or +1 to Evade, as their Speed 3+ already covers this pretty well. Just the +1 to slams/slambacks, please.
I also think bringing back the -1 dice to strength tests in a slam is a good idea. The +1 dodge and evade should stay away as the former made it really hard to steal the ball from them (which seems at odds with the intangible fluff) and the latter made becoming insubstantial pointless.
I think they’re always going to be a strong team in 1 off games if they retain 3+ speed, free movement and no downsides, but the removal of the dice and bonuses has brought them down to the point where they’re eminently beatable and they will suffer in leagues due to player losses.
Perhaps you could give them a team rule that prevents them from using Free Agents? Something like ‘they all refuse to play with them out of superstition’? This might balance out the -1 dice rule returning and making them hard to hurt.
What if they can switch places with a Slamming player when they double a Dodge, knocking the Slamming player prone in the process?
Question… if an Ada-Lorana player is Knocked Down/Prone and still in an opponents Threat Hex (or 2).. on their turn/activation, can they go Insubstantial and then roll to stand up with no penalties to the stand up test?
@ Rob Uccello.. I guess I can see a “scooby doo moment” where someone tries to grab them and they go Insubstantial and the opponent falls on their face.. but with 3+ Dodge they are going to be Doubling Slams pretty often and I think other teams would just avoid slamming them at all.. which although good for the Ada-Lorana, probably isn’t what Jake had in mind for them.. and that would lead to a pretty 1 dimensional (no ghost pun intended) game with no slam attempts…
@ 4rmless… I don’t know if a random League Free-Agent restriction is really helpful in the short games.. I’m okay with the Mutant one as it’s pretty flavorful/fluff-tastic.. but the trade off for such high costs of Extras is too much IMHO and the lack of Coaching Dice in the Mechanites I can kinda see as far as Fluff goes.. but you could argue “advanced programming” and “hacking (not the same as Jake’s new rules)” should actually make Mechanites have MORE coaching dice… so I’d prefer to stay away from more singular League impacting rules if possible… and wouldn’t actually do much to penalize them in one-off games so they’d still be super-powerful in those situations..
I think the tough call is:
1) leave them as they are and see if 3+ Speed, 4+ skill, and Insubstantial is enough to keep them in the game… they will score often.. so maybe opponents that focus too hard on taking them out will lose by landslides in Rushes 3/4 or 5/6 too often..
2) or is +1 Dodge dice still too good of an upgrade and makes them super-hard to pin down, impossible to steal from as you mentioned, and a Guard and Jacks Dodging on 4 dice at 3+ is really good ..
3) or -1 Str to Slams/Slambacks but does that end up penalizing their one Guard & makes their Jacks almost useless in Slam situations… with the upside being the are still hard to “take out” for a long period of time…
so do we want “the fastest/dodgiest team out there” or do we want a ghostly team that is kinda hard to wound but not impossible to pin down.. I kinda think the -1 Str to both sides is the better option and still gives them some flavor/fluff but makes their play style all about movement and insubstantial while still making them feel the loss of any models that do get taken out by a very good roll..
I wish we had more time to nut these guys out.
Of all the teams, this one seems like it is a pain to find the balance between fair, interesting rules and the ‘theme’.
I’d love to investigate if there is a way for them to be insubstantial by default – allowing players to become solid when activating or responding with a dice roll – this would forcing them to play a passing game, depending on free actions because ending your action with the ball would cause you to drop it.
Another ‘negative’ that would be themeatic could be preventing insubstantial Ada players from blocking throws. They would be a hyper offensive team, but incapable of blocking the 4pt strike.