Quirkworthy

First up, a big thank you to everyone who took part in testing these DB teams. I’ve really enjoyed the comments and feedback from your games. While I’ve not replied to every comment individually, I have read them all. I hope you enjoyed the process too 🙂

I’ve sent in the following versions for layout.

Hacking v2 – no change with the Hacking rules. Seb’s firewall idea is interesting, but not without its own issues. I think it would quickly become a must have purchase, and as it’s a negative, would just drain cash from a league to no game effect, and some frustration. Whilst it does have its fans (me included), Reputation is something that most people don’t seem to like in its current form. It’s probably better looked at as something to consider for a second edition when we can integrate it much more. That’s years away, so it may resurface as an experimental rule in the meantime.

Tsudochan v2 – no change needed here.

Mechanites v2 – The drastic cuts seem to have worked quite well. All the comments since this version have been very positive. They remain powerful, but now have some serious limitations and a higher cost as a counterbalance. I daresay they’ll shake out with some nasty combos when people have a few months to tinker. Much improved though.

Plague v4 – a couple of people have questioned whether doubling the extras cost is too harsh. I think it’s hard to be certain in league teams as there are so many moving parts. Time will tell if this needs refining. For the moment, in one-off games I think it works fine, with the bonus that it’s very easy to remember/calculate and accommodates any future team bonuses that are added (and no, I’m not planning any – you just know how these things go). The change to v4 is just to clarify that these double costs add that whole cost to the team’s rank.

Ada-Lorana v4 – given the time constraints and the amount of work to do, I was wielding the editorial axe rather liberally with these team updates. Although I think I got most of this right, I went a bit too far for most people with the Ada Lorana. As v2 was considered too good and v3 too bland, this final version is somewhere between the two. I’ve added some additional clarification to Insubstantial, and restored the strength modifier for Solid.

Koris v3 – the discussion here has all be around the confusion check table. Was an extra dice roll going to slow the game, did armour need to be included, and so on? I’ve gone for a hybrid, with Koris (who are familiar with the whole portal weirdness and don’t care) rolling a fixed value. They’re the ones that will use it most and this means you can just roll quickly. To retain the character, tension, story, and uncertainty of someone else using the Koris portals, other races have to roll to see which stat they use. I think this gives us the best of both worlds 🙂

Crystallans v2 – this one generated a bit of discussion. Some thought that the change in Harmonics was bad, others good. Interestingly, it seems from the comments that all of the people who liked it had played games with the new rules, and most of those who didn’t had not: perhaps the difference between how things look on paper and how they play. I agree with the dissenters that bonus speed is less dramatic than bonus strength – however, I think that’s part of the reason why this change is good. If you give someone their best bonus first, then they won’t work to get the rest. In the end I’ve left the team as it was.

By all means carry on using these and commenting below with your thoughts. I can’t guarantee that we will be able to make any further changes, but you never know. The smaller and sooner the change, the more likely it will be possible.

Playtesting these latest teams been an interesting process, and I think it’s been largely successful. Certainly I think we’ll all benefit from better balanced teams.

If you’re interested in more of this sort of thing then you might want to click on subscribe (top right). I’ve got some more DB stuff I want to test out at some point. I’ll not be doing it immediately as I’ve got other games to look at as well, and need to share the love 🙂

I was considering trying to have a formal schedule, with something for DB, MA, DZ, etc every other month, or whatever. Not sure I can stick to that, and a rigid structure tends to force you into doing crap just to fill a slot. So I won’t do that. However, I am planning a bunch more of these interactive playtests for various games I work on. To keep everyone amused I’ll interleave the systems so it’s not all just one topic, and there’s other stuff I want to post too. Like I said, if you’re interested you might like to subscribe to make sure you don’t miss out.

Anyway, on to the next thing now!

Thanks again.

I decided to keep myself out of the discussion today, to let you guys come up with comments unsteered by me. Just to see what happened. The result has been rather fewer comments than I’d expected, but some goodies. Thank you for those 🙂

As I know that many of you are in different timezones, I’m leaving a final collation of comments and updating the files I submit till first thing tomorrow morning, my time. Which means that you’ve got another 8 hours or so.

After that it’ll be in layout and though we may have the opportunity to change the odd number here or there, nothing’s guaranteed.

So, any final thoughts on these teams?

I’ve tried a large number of slight variations on this theme, and I’ve ended up being quite brutal.

Ada-Lorana v3

The cost per player has gone up slightly, but the biggest difference is that solid Phasers are just like other players. The reason I made this drastic change is that I wanted them to actually use their special ability, and with all the bonuses they were getting when solid, there wasn’t any need. Once you start paring those bonuses back, it makes little sense to keep some and not others.

Is it too much? I’m not sure. It’ll certainly change how they play.

While I’m updating stuff…

I’ve removed Reputation as nobody seems to like it apart from me and Seb. Hacking is largely as it was, with the exception of a cost hike (as it no longer has a Reputation cost).

Hacking v2

Here’s the really challenging one to sort out.

Mechanites v2

I’ve increased many of the points costs, and shuffled around a few of the abilities. That makes the nasty combos much more expensive. However, that’s probably not enough.

To balance out the flexibility somewhat, the team is not allowed to purchase CD: they simply don’t work well as a team in that way.

Finally, the limitations of small workshops mean that they can’t focus exclusively on the specialists (which take lots more time to develop and finesse). The contracts with the DGB require them to field teams rather than single cool players, so, they must take at least as many Jacks as they have Guards and Strikers. That change should also help in league play.

I’ve not included a minimum number of players as a requirement as several people suggested because I think this is more properly a global rule if it’s needed at all.

One of the more problematical and powerful teams.

As with the other teams, there have been lots of useful and interesting comments – thank you all. The following incorporates that feedback.

Edit: updated to v3 to clarify that doubled cost applies for all such purchases, not just those at team creation.

Plague v3

Some of the points have been changed slightly, a couple of options have changed. Mostly the tables remain as they were because this reflects the model range.

The biggest difference is in the overall team building rules. All models must have at least one mutation, and all models in a team must be different. Incidentally, this makes them a much more appropriate mutant team. The crowd wouldn’t stand for a bunch of mutants looking like the 29ers – they want their mutants weird and varied!

Yes, this does make them a bit more of a modelling challenge. Then again, they were never expected to be anything else.

EarthDragon thought these were fine, while most others thought them a bit weak. I take ED’s point, and I agree that a thinky and skilled player will be able to do well with them as they stand. However, I think that most players will only adapt to them slowly, if at all, so I’ve made some small changes to make them easier to use.

Crystallans v2

The CD has become a card. That allows Coaches to try the familiar Jack approach. This, incidentally, now adds up properly too 🙂

I’ve changed Harmonics to give Speed bonuses before Strength. This was swapped to mitigate the problem of Speed 5 Guards being knocked over.

I’ve also changed Harmonics to work at range 3, not just 2. This means they don’t have to bunch up so much, and also helps with the fallen Guards.

Is this too much? Does harmonics need to go back to range 2? Give them a try and see what you think.

These bad boys were too powerful by a large margin. Consequently, I’ve made numerous changes to both their stat line and abilities, as well as adding clarifications on all the questions raised. Lots of excellent points in the previous thread.

The aim here was to both tone them down a bit, and make them slightly more reliant on their portal ability to move around.

The portal rules have been simplified very slightly and brought a little more in line with the rest of the DB rules.

Koris v2

If you can get these chaps on the table over the next couple of days I’d love to hear what you find.

A v2 of the Tsudochan. No changes to their rules or stats, just an extra paragraph at the end to clarify that they cannot move either the ball or the Ref.

Tsudochan v2

I read all the comments on the Updates thread, and they’re pretty consistent, which is always good. In fact, much more so than I’d expected – all of which makes updating things easier.

The summary is:

Crystallans: slightly too weak.

Tsudochan: fine as they are.

Ada Lorana: a bit too powerful, but not by a lot.

Koris: a bit too powerful, but not by a lot.

Mechanites: overpowered (mainly due to flexibility).

Plague: overpowered (mainly due to flexibility).

So, the Monks can stay as they are, three teams need tweaks, and the last two need their flexibility mitigating. That’s the tricky one, not because there are no clear ways to do this, but because that’s their signature thing and I don’t want to take it away from them entirely.

One comment that a couple of people had was about Jacks in general: the new teams that rely heavily on Jacks will benefit disproportionately if/when Jacks get revised/improved. That’s true, however, as we don’t yet know what or when that change will be we have to ignore it for now. When we make any changes to the core game (like basic rules for Jacks) it’s bound to change the balance between all the teams, and that creates a lot of ancillary work. There’s a lot more to making that change than simply saying all Jacks get Slide (or whatever).